Riverrossi N&W 2-8-8-2 mallet

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking of buying a new one, but for cryin' out loud, look at the price! I recall when these sold for less than $100.00. Is the detail any better than it was then? How well do the new ones run? I really don't need all that DCC stuff. Call me an old fossil, but in 20 years the plastic-fantastic, has eclipsed the price of "brass" from the same era. I have seen the new Y-5 models and they are really great, but I wonder if the Riverossi Y-6's are really worth the similar cost. Last time I saw one up close, it still looked like it had the 1970's tooling. I can't see an extra $200.00 just for a flywheel, and a PC board. I'd like to hear from anyone who has one of these "new" Y-6's. Is it really worth it?
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

I bot the Mallet four years ago from model expo for $178.00. The problem with the Rivs of that era was an insufficient electrical wheel base.

My Mallet eventually had an electrical failure and
I sold it.

The newer almighty-powerful allegheny has 13 pick-ups but $400.00

All Rivs regardless of where purchased do carry a Walthers one year warranty.

Hope this helps.

[dknelson]

I got my Y6b as a Christmas gift when it was first released in the mid 1960s. Price: $31.95 at Woolworths (!) and it was considered to be very cheap at the time (list price was $35.95). I think I was as excited seeing that 2-8-8-2 under the tree as I was over my first Lionel set (and that is pretty darned excited by the way).
I understand all sorts of improvements have been made but not to the basic appearance. The flanges are smaller now but to my knowledge the wheels themselves are still very very undersized -- that is true of all the Rivarossi steamers, just compare their NYC Hudsons to a more accurate model -- the drive wheels are the first thing that strike you.
At the time the Y6b was considered to be an unusually quiet locomotive.
Frankly knowing what the engines used to cost when they were AHM has made me refuse to even consider the Rivarossi prices. Much of that tooling is long since paid for, and the part that is new is not worth the money.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Amen Dave, I think we need to send the message out that we will not pay "brass" prices for mass produced plastic models from China, or wherever... Come on now, $350:00 for a plastic Riv. Big Boy???? At the risk of dating myself, The first AHM steamer I bought was an 0-8-0. For about 15 bucks! Now, they are over a hundred....
What gives??????
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

I don't have one of the Riv's becasue I was unsure about them just as you are. The one main reason is the undersize drivers and of course the current price. I would recomend picking up a Proto2000 Y3. I have seen them go for as little as $150 on E-bay. The level of detail knocks the Rivarossi back to the 1960's where it came from, and they run like a swiss watch (they may just be made in Switzerland, I think Roco mfgs them).

I do have to ask though,,, where in the world can I get a brass Y5 for under $300?

[Anonymous]

I suppose you would need a time machine to go back to the early 1970's to find that $300.00 brass Y. I'm not aware of any brass Y-class models currently on the market, if there are any, expect to pay well over $1000.00. Of course, the brass models today are much better than those of the 1970's. Speaking of brass, it always seemed funny to me that a lot of buyers of brass, would never paint the locomotive into a proper black. I guess they wanted everybody to know that they had laid out big bucks for brass. When I was a kid, the family took a trip to Akron Ohio, to see what was then billed as the worlds biggest HO scale layout. This guy had brass engines up the wazoo, but I don't think he had painted a single one! I haven't heard anything about the Akron layout in many years. I assume it no longer exists.
Todd C.

[dknelson]

Well the value of something is what people are willing to pay and I guess the Rivarossi engines are "worth" the going price. And I guess that means brass is "worth" what it goes for, and so on. And yeah I know that a brand new Buick in 1966 went for way less than even a compact car would sell for now, and Coke was ten cents, so things are relative.
But isn't it interesting that Rivarossi seems only to tinker with what they offered 20 and 30 years ago? I can see paying high prices for entirely new tooling.
The problem is that if I am only willing to pay what I think things are worth I'll never buy anything because it all seems too expensive and that is no fun. You reach a certain age and everything seems outrageous.
Dave Nelson

[nfmisso]

Hi Todd;

I own three Rivarossi Y6b (made in Italy) from various times, seven P2K Y3 (made by Roco in Austria) and a pair of Powerhouse Y3 (made by Samhongsa in Korea).

The latest Rivarossi Y6b models are totally different underneath compared to the earlier models. The older models had a three pole motor filling the cab, with a shaft to a gearbox above the high pressure engine, with another shaft, in line with the first one, continuing to a gearbox above the low pressure engine. The deep flanges on these models are very obvious.

The new models (characterized by blackend wheels with RP25 flanges) have the motor with flywheels between the two gearboxes, and the cab is clear for detailing. The new models are very very smooth, BUT they have limited electrical pickup, which is why you see them on ebay from time to time with a melted driver. Add additional pickups.

The shell tooling is late 1950's, not 1970s. It was excellent for the first two decades of its production. It is now 4½ decades old.

The P2K model is twice as good in every aspect. The Powerhouse is not as well detailed as the P2K, but it will pull more.

It is not extremely difficult to convert any of these 2-8-8-2 to DCC.

Bowser is offering 56" drivers now. The new Spectrum low boilered 4-6-0 has 56" drivers (not 52" as Bachmann's website indicates). This is in addition to Greenway and P2k, making a total of four sources for US Prototype 56/57" drivers, for those who may want to build a chassis.

Is it worth it? It depends on your priorities. Recall that in 1970, a Ferrari 365GTB4 (aka Daytona) cost just under $20,000. The equivalent model today, the 550 Maranello is over $200,000; roughly the same ratio.

Nigel

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the reply Nigel, I guess my question to you is, do you think that the "new" Riverossi Y-6's are worth the $300.00 price tag? I really like those proto 2000 Y-5's too, I'm just looking for the best choice of the two. Right now, I don't even have a layout together. (I live in an apartment). But I have been gradually buying rolling stock, and structures in hopes of a great layout once I buy a house. (With a full basement of course)! I want to some day capture the Blue Ridge grade in HO scale. I have been a big fan of O.Winston Link for years, and have been recently corresponding with Tom Garver, who was an assistant to Link with his work in the late 1950's. Always a Grand Trunk Western modeller in the past, you bet that I'll sell off all my GTW stuff to create an HO scale "Blue Ridge".
Todd C.

[dknelson]

Well if it is O Winston Link era 1950s N&W you want to model it seems to be the Y6b is just about essential whatever the objections may be to how much profit Rivarossi makes off of it
The Y3s were phased out before the Y6bs were
That and the new A from Broadway Limited and the improved J from Bachmann and the USRA 0-8-0 and you are in business I'd say.
If you aren't familiar with them, the O Winston Link recordings are almost as wonderful as the photographs. The famous Christmas Eve recording mixing a church bell's silent night with steam -- wow
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Amen, Dave. As for Links sound recordings, My all time favorite was "Thunder on Blue Ridge". I have a few old, scratched-up LP's, Heck, I don't even have a record player anymore! But Tom Garver says that by fall, they will come out with most of all the original recordings on CD! I can't hardly wait! Once I get my boxed set, my neighbors are really going to think I'm nuts! Yup, they are going to hear Y-6's, class A's, and J's at FULL VOLUME. Oh, you just gotta love modern technology.
Todd C.

[dknelson]

I have an LP of railroad songs that also includes several Link recordings and I think the notes said they were tidbits that had not otherwise been released. There is a Y6b going through a town at night that is haunting. They had a rather "hooty" whistle.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Oh yea, you just can't beat those N&W whistles for spine tingling sound. When NS was running the 1218, we were treated to a small sample, but I sure wish I was around in the 1950's to really be able to experience it all first hand. I'm glad that Mr. Link recorded it for us "new-comers" to hear.
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

Todd-
I've been following this thread and guess I have to chime in. I have a brass Y6 and the P2K Y3 as well as a Riverossi Y6b that is about 2 years old and never been out of the box. The P2K outshines them all. Both the brass and the Riverossi are now up for sale for that reason alone. I'm ashamed to say what I have in the brass but I only have about $175 in the Riverossi and will probably let it go for just that. The P2K has absolutely spoiled me. My track is not the best but it has never derailed! Not one single time! It's a jewel.

Terry (Ohio)

[Anonymous]

If the other 2 are derailing, make sure ALL the wheelsets are in proper gauge. I've found this to be the first most likely trouble spot. The easiest to correct as well! About that "riv", you can E-mail me at [e-mail]
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

I currently run 3 of the most recently released ('96 or '97) Rivarossi Y-6b's, and I have to remind myself that only as recently as that they were our ONLY option as far as a non-brass N&W articulated. Yes, I bought the P2K Y-3's and I am quite impressed with the level of detail, not to mention excellent running and tracking abilities. Now BLI brings out the A with sound and comparable detail! What a great time to model the late N&W steam era. IMHO, the P2K units have the best detail of any non-brass steamer ever, and with sound installed they will be hard to top. I belong to a club with a few very serious brass collectors, and one night we put a P2K Y-3 next to a recently released brass steamer, and there was virtually nothing on the $2,000 brass that was not on the P2K. Let's also not forget the Bachmann Spectrum J, which can easily be eqipped with sound. ( the bottom of the tender was obviously designed for it) By the way, one of my A's arrived with a detached crosshead guide fouling the running gear. BLI paid for the return UPS pickup and exactly 10 days later a replacement arrived. Not bad service at all. From what I hear, a Y-6b is being worked on by BLI, I can't wait to see if that's true. Like I said, what a great time to model N&W steam.