Does MR Ever Change?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie
Please remember, the decision to remove the Coming Events from the magazine was based off of years of reader surveys that all showed that Coming Events ranked at the bottom of the popularity list with readers. They didn't make a spur of the moment decision to remove that feature, it was based on hard facts.

Bergie

I dunno Bergie, looks like you got yourself a contradiction here.

You say it was always at the bottom of the list, and yet every time it comes up here there's a chorus of "don't take it away" (before hand) or "we miss it, bring it back" (now).

There's also the issue of "it was at the bottom"... What does that mean really. Let me put it to you this way:

Which would you rather I give you:

A) $10,000 cash
B) A $10,000 automobile
C) $10,000 pre-loaded credit card.

Now I can ask this of 1 person or 10,000 people and one of those will always be "last"... So then I can say "hey look, nobody wants a $10,000 car for free!" is that it?

[Anonymous]

Compare MR to RMC, and you'll see the same reviews,basically telling the good points of the model,I doubt they'd give a thumbs up to a dog. Both mags fill many pages with ads, although many are smaller giving web addresses for prices,only Mainline Modler Rail Model Journal and Model Railroading use less advertising, but are more niche driven mags,covering specific models and eras. Model Railroader's biggest problems is the good ole boy network of articles,authors and trackside photos.the same people month after month. Then there's their constant need to feed their ego , RPO, back -slapping" atta boys" ,they have to print each month, and that's a fact!!!!

[Anonymous]

Hey BXCARMIKE...

I tend to agree that the Good 'ol boy network is an issue.

But, especially after seeing the responses and debate on this board the last few days, I would have to say MRs "biggest problem" is simply the utter conviction that there are no problems. If people don't like the reviews, then they don't understand what "reviews" are supposed to be. If they say the focus is too much on beginners, then say "no it isn't" or question their perception.

And if all else fails, just delete the discussion thread, put your fingers in your ears and play "hear no evil"...

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie
Please remember, the decision to remove the Coming Events from the magazine was based off of years of reader surveys that all showed that Coming Events ranked at the bottom of the popularity list with readers. They didn't make a spur of the moment decision to remove that feature, it was based on hard facts.

Bergie

I dunno Bergie, looks like you got yourself a contradiction here.

You say it was always at the bottom of the list, and yet every time it comes up here there's a chorus of "don't take it away" (before hand) or "we miss it, bring it back" (now).

There's also the issue of "it was at the bottom"... What does that mean really. Let me put it to you this way:

Which would you rather I give you:

A) $10,000 cash
B) A $10,000 automobile
C) $10,000 pre-loaded credit card.

Now I can ask this of 1 person or 10,000 people and one of those will always be "last"... So then I can say "hey look, nobody wants a $10,000 car for free!" is that it?

I fail to see the contradiction... we have scientific survey results that state the facts. You can't take random comments from a reader forum (beit comments on Coming Events or any other topic) and use a chorus of "don't take it away" to be a overall scientific fact.

Yes, it's not as though those survey results showed no one was interested in Coming Events. There certainly was interest in Coming Events. However, when compared to other features of the magazine, it ranked low.

Bergie

[Anonymous]

Don't be fooled by science Bergie, Lets take the radio industry for an example, over90% of it's owned by corporations, no matter what genre of music ,it's based on survey of top 40 hits,so you hear the same thing over and over and over again, all day , everyday. People get tired of it, but the wits in charge say "that's what the surevys says is popular", your magazine takes the same approach, individualism is lost,editors follow a script,fearing to try something different

[Anonymous]

What's the old saying? Lies, *** Lies and Statistics...

I've done enough surveys and so forth to know that you can craft the questions, stage the method of response and interpret results to get pretty much any answer you want to hear.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if those surveyed ranked Coming Events low when compared to other standard features? Not that they did not like or need them, just they weren't always needed or required, and feature stories were more important much of the time.

After all we don't all travel all the time and need to know where shows are, so much of the time the column might not be of interest . If the survey said what would you like to see removed from MR, and one choice was the column, that I could see.

Bob Boudreau

[potlatcher]

If I'd known there were so many worms in this can, I might not have opened it. However, I did want to generate a discussion of whether constructive suggestions made in this forum ever translate into changes to the magazine that make it better for everyone.

I appreciate Bergie participating in this topic, and I have a couple questions for him:

1) Do you ever read a well-thought-out proposal on a forum topic and turn it around to Terry with a note saying "This is a great idea! We should look at doing this in MR from now on"?

2) You indicate that responses to surveys have a big impact on the direction that MR takes. How do I get into the pool of potential survey participants for MR? Every few months I get a survey from Trains, but since I don't buy that magazine very often I can seldom give a useful response to the questions.

Just so everyone knows, I just paid for another two-year subscription yesterday. I believe MR has some flaws, but not enough to give up my subscription. I just want to know how I can best help improve the magazine.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

I fail to see the contradiction... we have scientific survey results that state the facts. You can't take random comments from a reader forum (beit comments on Coming Events or any other topic) and use a chorus of "don't take it away" to be a overall scientific fact.

Yes, it's not as though those survey results showed no one was interested in Coming Events. There certainly was interest in Coming Events. However, when compared to other features of the magazine, it ranked low.

Bergie

That's part of the problem, Erik. MR has conducted scientific surveys ad infinitum over the past three-plus years. Surveys go out monthly via e-mail to readers registered on this site. Surveys here, surveys there. Does the staff still get the monthly survey results showing whether their particular department registered a 3.6 approval vs. 3.2 the month prior vs. 3.7 before that, etc.? A bit like chasing rabbits.

Nothing's done to MR without first consulting the surveys, and yet the magazine is still stuck in neutral despite its pretty makeover. The content has become banal. The last idea of any practical value that my particular group of intermediate/expert modelers got out of MR in the past two years was the recently published Kink on attaching clothespins to the backside of the fascia to hang skirting.

Whatever happened to editorial intuition and doing things for the good of the hobby (like putting reviews online ASAP and expanding layout feature stories by four more pages for photos), even it it means sacrificing a bit from the bottom line?

I'll answer my own question: it's the difference between the MR of Linn Westcott and the old Kalmbach compared to the MBA suits of the newer, corporate, sterile, play-it-safe Kalmbach.

[palallin]

If memory serves, Terry's academic credentials are in history . . . .

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kchronister

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie
Please remember, the decision to remove the Coming Events from the magazine was based off of years of reader surveys that all showed that Coming Events ranked at the bottom of the popularity list with readers. They didn't make a spur of the moment decision to remove that feature, it was based on hard facts.

Bergie

I dunno Bergie, looks like you got yourself a contradiction here.

You say it was always at the bottom of the list, and yet every time it comes up here there's a chorus of "don't take it away" (before hand) or "we miss it, bring it back" (now).

There's also the issue of "it was at the bottom"... What does that mean really. Let me put it to you this way:

Which would you rather I give you:

A) $10,000 cash
B) A $10,000 automobile
C) $10,000 pre-loaded credit card.

Now I can ask this of 1 person or 10,000 people and one of those will always be "last"... So then I can say "hey look, nobody wants a $10,000 car for free!" is that it?

I agree with most of the comments in this thread, but on this point, I'm going to side with Bergie. The $10,000 example given above is an example of pre-loading the question. Yes, in a survey of however many people, one of those choices is going to be at the 'bottom' of the list. But all of those items have the SAME relative value. In the magazine surveys, each feature on the list doesn't have the same relative value (i.e. $10,000). A layout article with photos will appeal to more people than an article on airbrushing, simply because it has more appeal to a wider cross section of those surveyed.

So the list should be more like:

Which would you rather I give you:

A) A layout article with color pictures and a track plan
B) A detailed article on scratch-building a watertower
C) A how-to article on benchwork construction
D) A list of coming events

Which one do you think will be on the bottom? Does that mean no one wants it? No, it just means that it has a much lower priority than the other selections. Some survey participants might actually have 'coming events' at the top of their list, but most will assign a lower value to it in comparison to the other choices. In the list given above, 'coming events' might actually finish higher than the scratch-building article because it may have a slightly wider appeal to more people.

How the results of a survey are tabulated can skew the end results. In the above example, if a different points value were assigned for every time a selection received a first, second, third or fourth place vote, then adding up the value of each selection's first, second, third and fourth place votes might change the outcome of the survey. Only a minority number of people would have to vote first place on 'coming events' in order to have 'coming events' rated higher on the list. Even the amount of points assigned to each selection can skew the survey. First, second, third and fourth place = 10, 5, 2 & 1 point respectively gives a different result than 100, 75, 50 & 25 points respectively. Not much of a difference, but a difference nonetheless.

Not all surveys are going to produce the same results, but overall, I have to agree with Bergies statement:
"Yes, it's not as though those survey results showed no one was interested in Coming Events. There certainly was interest in Coming Events. However, when compared to other features of the magazine, it ranked low."

And given the often times passionate nature of model railroaders, it's not surprising that the elimination of a feature will result in a chorus of "Oh,no"'s and "Don't take it out"'s.

For me personally, I haven't missed the 'Coming Events' listings. Like the "List of Advertisers", it was a feature that I didn't use very often. But that's just me and I'm not the only subscriber to the magazine!

Darrell, long-winded, opinionated and quiet...for now

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TA462

The Coming Events listings is back in but now they CHARGE FOR IT. They swore up and down it was removed because it was a decision based on a survey. A large number of clubs voiced their concern so they put it back in, at a price. If you want to list your upcoming show for three months it costs you 75 bucks. Is MR that hard up for money that they need to charge clubs that have supported them for years? MR, get rid of the Hobby Shop section, not very many people read it. Oh wait you can't, thats a huge amount of money you will lose out on. Same as all the ads in the magazine, who actually reads all of them? 2/3rds of the pages in MR have ads on them so in reality all your buying is a small amount of content. MR really needs to wake up and listen to people instead of just deleting posts because their feelings got hurt.

I've deleted threads because of incorrect information, not because my feelings got hurt.

Case in point: you claim 2/3 of the page in MR are ads. The fact, it's typically 50/50. Count them this weekend if you'd like, but it's the truth.

This thread is now locked. Let's move on to discussions about the hobby, you know, the reason this forum exists.

Erik

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TA462

The Coming Events listings is back in but now they CHARGE FOR IT. They swore up and down it was removed because it was a decision based on a survey. A large number of clubs voiced their concern so they put it back in, at a price. If you want to list your upcoming show for three months it costs you 75 bucks. Is MR that hard up for money that they need to charge clubs that have supported them for years? MR, get rid of the Hobby Shop section, not very many people read it. Oh wait you can't, thats a huge amount of money you will lose out on. Same as all the ads in the magazine, who actually reads all of them? 2/3rds of the pages in MR have ads on them so in reality all your buying is a small amount of content. MR really needs to wake up and listen to people instead of just deleting posts because their feelings got hurt.

I've deleted threads because of incorrect information, not because my feelings got hurt.

Case in point: you claim 2/3 of the page in MR are ads. The fact, it's typically 50/50. Count them this weekend if you'd like, but it's the truth.

This thread is now locked. Let's move on to discussions about the hobby, you know, the reason this forum exists.

Erik