Tortoise Switch Question

[jcgisel]

I am installing these switches on my layout and am wondering how to wire them so I can have two different toggle switches to operate the same switch. I have loop layout that i have to duck under, so I would like to have a control panel inside the loop and also on the outside.Thanks.[?]

[tsasala]

Well, I guess the easiest would be to use two spst switches, with one of the throws connected to power and the other throw not connected to anything. The other switch would have the power lead reversed. That is, one switch has + and the other switch has - leading to the tortoise, with ground in common. Make sense?

[rrinker]

Your best bet is a circuit with pushbuttons, like the slow motion switch machine control on Rob Paisley's web site http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/556Stall.html

If you use toggle switches - one will never agree witht he other - it's like a 3-way switch in your house.

You can wire LEDs in series with the Tortoise motor (no resistors needed) to put on your panels to indicate which way the turnout is thrown. Or hook LEDs WITH resistors to one of the contact sets on the Tortoise.

--Randy

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jcgisel

I am installing these switches on my layout and am wondering how to wire them so I can have two different toggle switches to operate the same switch.

You CANT.

Tortoise's are 'stall motor' type's that are kept electrically 'hot', or stay ON.

QUOTE: I have loop layout that i have to duck under, so I would like to have a control panel inside the loop and also on the outside.Thanks.[?]

Prohibitly expensive. If you invest in a near top-of-the-line DCC (expensive) with ability to throw mainline switches, and has RADIO CONTROL (+$100), you could accompli***his - provided your control unit goes inside/outside with you, (or you have 2 of them).

Better to install a 'lift up' or out section.

[nbrodar]

There is a way. I'll have to check my wiring books and get back to you.

Nick

[SteelMonsters]

It's possible to do it for a total cost of a couple bucks per tortoise. Use a cheap DPDT relay latch. You will need 4 buttons, 2 at each panel. One button needs to be mometary on, the other off. The relay has 8 connections, 2 for the coil, 2 commons, a NO and NC contacts for the commons. To hook up the tortiouse, the NC buttons will connect the coil to +12 volts. Either button cuts power to the coil. The NO pushbuttons ground the other end of the coil One of the commons is connected to ground, the other is connected to +12 volts. You need a wire to go from the NO contact that touches the ground common of the relay to the ground side of the coil, this will produce a latch.

Now, you need to connect the tortoise to the same side you have the coil ground wire (NO) on both sides. Criss cross wires to the opposite contact. (NO ground to NC +12, and NO+12 to NC ground.

This will cause a short when a sink button is pressed and the relay is on(power through the coil). Power will feed from +12 to the +12 common to through the contact to the +12 NO contact, through the wire to the NC contact with the tortoise and coil ground wire to the ground through the pushbutton. To get rid of this problem, A diode needs to be placed on the wire between the pushbutton and coil and the NC contact on the ground side of the relay. The band (cathode, white or black band on physical diode casing) must face the relay coil.

I could make a cheap paint picture of what I'm talking about.. It won't look pretty but it will be give a very good easy to follow example on how to wire it up.

[jcgisel]

This may be a little over my head. I do have a digitrax Empire builder and I know about the hare, But I have three double crossovers and buying these switches are really going to hurt my wallet. All said I haveto buy 26 switches at 18.95 a pop,without the toggles. Maybe i should just make one panel. It Sound like it is going to be really complicated.I am not very good at electrical. I dont know if I should mount it inside the loop, or outside. My layout is16X9. Any suggestions.

[grayfox1119]

I would go with radio control. It is tough on the wallet initially, but in the long term, very satisfying.

[SteelMonsters]

The "hare" and DCC stationary decoders are on my negative list for two reasons. They are very expensive and they don't work like I want them to. I will leave out all of the added ranting against them.

I can make that design 10x simpler with a picture. It actually only takes about 10 minutes of soldering, and that with a cup of coffee. Getting the parts would be the hard part. If you have a radio shack, or another electronics compnent store around you could go there. www.jameco.com is the best for parts. $25 min order, If you buy all the parts you need at once you won't have a problem. (otherwise you get a fee of $5)

NO pushbuttons (normally open or no power unless it's pressed)
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=26622&pa=26622PS
NC pushbuttons (normally closed, or power untill it's pressed)
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=26649&pa=26649PS
Relay (the pinout is on top, I could explain exactly how they work, but a picture is so much better)
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=200740
Diodes (you have to buy in intervals of 10, I hope you can afford $0.40 for a pack of 10)
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=36011&pa=36011PS


It's hard to explain and I did a poor job explaining it. A picture will not only explain itself but it will also show you exactly how to wire up. I would just post a picture, but webshots doesn't seem to be working for me at this time.

[rolleiman]

Well, Once again, The nay-sayers are wrong. You need 4 push buttons for it to work best.. Modify this however you see fit...

[image]http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/2paneltortise.jpg[/image]

This is your panel circuit.. One of each type of push buttons on each panel.. A tortise IS a stall motor, that's true.. But you only have to TELL it to throw one way.. The other way can be a default. You'll need at least a 3 pole double throw relay for this to work.. The Way it works is in its normal state one of the normally closed contacts of the relay holds power to the relay coil keeping it energized.. Using the other 2 sets of contacts on the relay it's a simple setup just like you would wire your toggle switch on a single panel. When you push one of the Normally Closed push buttons, you De-energize the relay, Opening that single contact in the diagram, switching the polarity on your tortise (from the other 2 sets of relay contacts) thus throwing the tortise in the opposite direction. To re-throw the tortise to it's normal state (straight track), push one of the Normally Open push buttons. That will Re-engergize the relay, reclosing that contact and holding it in place. The whole thing shouldn't cost more than about $4 or $5 to set up per tortise.

I don't show the tortise in this diagram or the other sets of contacts. I'm assuming you know How to wire the tortise. This is Only the panel circuit and can be used for as many panels as you wish.. I show DC power (+/-) on the relay circuit... That's because some relays can be powered with DC others require AC.. I would suggest getting them that can run off the same power source you are using for your tortises.

By the way, Those double cross overs, you can operate 2 tortises at the same time. You are either crossing over or you are not.. There's no in between unless you want train wrecks.

Good luck,
Jeff
[swg]

[rrinker]

And like I mentioned, Rob Paisley's circuit can do the same thing for the same cost as a relay, but in all solid-state. It's just a 556 timer IC and a couple of resistors. You can have as many sets of pushbuttons as you want. NCE Switch-Its can do the same as well - you can have multiple sets of pushbuttons as well as control it from the DCC system.
Either or, they both work. I've got one turnout (actually the crossover to enter my yard) that I want to hook up in that manner, so the yard operator on the inside can bring a train in, and a mainline operator on the outside cna pull his train out of the yard.

--Randy