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HO scale catenary

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HO scale catenary
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:23 PM
does anyone have any suggestion as to what i can use to create catenary lines in HO scale... I am going to make the towers and the line supports out of copper...but I was not sure what metal to use to make the lines themselves...i have had a suggestion of using actual copper wire, but i have my own doubts...please help
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 5, 2001 12:02 PM
I think the best wire for catenary is #30 phosphor bronze. As for the supports, I think brass poles would be much better. Copper is to soft for the required tention.
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Posted by thirdrail1 on Monday, March 5, 2001 5:14 PM
Model Memories makes HO scale PRR and NH catenary towers. These are the ones used on the Northeast Corridor (PRR Wash-NY, NH NY-New Haven). You can also buy catenary made by Sommerfeldt to adapt to these poles. If you are doing it yourself, brass H and I beams for the towers and phosphor bronze wire for the catenary would be the best materials to use.
"The public be ***ed, it's the Pennsylvania Railroad I'm competing with." - W.K.Vanderbilt
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:09 AM
i found the URL of the site that you were talking about...http://www.info-4u.com/modelmemories/
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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, July 2, 2020 8:53 AM

Must reads

"When the Steam Railroads Electrified" by Hilton

"Traction Handbook" by the Mallerys

"Traction Guidebook" by Schaefer (Has intructions on making overhead)

Also

There were a surprising number of lines that were under wire or alongside third rail. Here are the "steam railroad" (ie: not Interurbans) electrical systems of the "Golden Age". Gives you lots of stuff to base a model RR on....

 

Catenary

----------

Lackawanna - 3000 V DC

Milwaukee - 3000 V DC - Wooden poles

Butte, Anaconda and Pacific - 2400 V DC

Cleveland Union Terminal (NYC) - 3000 V DC

Illinois Central - 1500 V DC

Pennsylvania - 11000 V AC

New Haven - 11000 V AC

Reading - 11000 V AC

Virginian - 11000 V AC

Norfolk and Western - 11000 V AC

Great Northern - 11000 V AC

Boston and Maine - 11000 V AC

Grand Trunk - 3300 V AC

Piedmont & Northern - 1500 V DC

 

Third Rail

----------

New York Central - 600 V DC Underruning

Michigan Central - 600 V DC Underrunning

PRR - Long Island - 675 V DC Overrunning

Baltimore & Ohio - 675V DC

 

Third Rail & Trolley Wire

---------------------------

West Jersey and Seashore - Pennsyvania Reading Seashore Lines

 

AC to DC Catenary Conversion

----------------------------------

South Shore - Converted from 6600 V AC to 1500 V DC in 1926

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

Note that the 11000 V AC Systems were compatible

Westinghouse advocated AC while GE went with DC

 

 

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, July 2, 2020 9:42 AM

Your are answering to a 19 year old thread than has long passed it´s best before date. I doubt that the OP is still around to look at your contribution.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, July 2, 2020 9:59 AM

Wow, this thread is old!  It's so old that Model Memories didn't even have their own web address at the time.  Now it's www.modelmemories.com

And yes, they are still selling NH and PRR catenary.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, July 2, 2020 10:14 AM

How did this post even surface?  Wow!  Isn't there an expiration date on posts?

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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Thursday, July 2, 2020 3:27 PM

There's some sort of glitch in the board. I submitted a reply to a thread about Armour Yellow paint on Sunday and only after I looked at it once I'd answered did I realise it was from 8 years ago or something and yet it was on page 1 when I opened the link to the board.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:04 PM

FlyingScotaman

There's some sort of glitch in the board. I submitted a reply to a thread about Armour Yellow paint on Sunday and only after I looked at it once I'd answered did I realise it was from 8 years ago or something and yet it was on page 1 when I opened the link to the board.

 

Probably your fault.  Do you have your preference checked as "order ascending" or "order decending"?

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:06 PM

Stick around, there are plenty of glitches.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

Moderator
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Posted by tstage on Thursday, July 2, 2020 6:13 PM

This HAS to be a new record for resurrecting a long-gone post. Surprise

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 2, 2020 7:06 PM

maxman
Probably your fault.

You must work for crApple. Wink

Do you have your preference checked as "order ascending" or "order descending"?

It hasn't mattered on this forum for years.  I have my global Kalmbach preference set to 'descending' (i.e. last post first) and it works properly on Trains and Classic Trains, but not here.

I think from other glitches in the past week or so that we're getting ready for at least a partial rollout of that 'new experience' that we've been promised since the fall of 2018 or so.  Frankly, in the absence of a working community search, it makes sense to resurrect some of the short but meaningful 'zombie' threads and bring them up to date, as otherwise we'll keep inventing the same tired answers every couple of years.

To recap what I said in some other cat threads: you can make the curve of the catenary out of hardenable steel wire that has been annealed, then shape it to fit in a groove etched or cut in a metal plate together with places for the risers and trolley and clearance at the joints.  Using a heavy bluing plate or a bed of metal sand, bring the wire that needs to hold its "tensioned" shape up to a good blue, let it cool, then clean the 'join' areas and use a small amount of solder and flux at each of the joints; heating the whole shebang up until the joints 'reflow' also tempers the wire.  With a little care and multiple jigs this also can duplicate pulloff on curves, somethng that never survives even a little casual handling if bent up in softer material.  You do need to WATCH IT a bit as the hardened spans are sharp...

You can solder or glue the sections as necessary or important, and use carefully-joined (or connected to feeders') copper as the trolley if you want ro use the pans  for contact.  In the era I did this, cat weathered to a variety of colors depending on environment (often a verdigris green as on the C&PD) and that is what you paint the noncontact part.  At one time I advocated using something like selenium black to keep the wire silhouette tas assembled thin but i liked the appearance better painted.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, July 2, 2020 7:56 PM

Overmod
Do you have your preference checked as "order ascending" or "order descending"? It hasn't mattered on this forum for years.

Really??????????  Just tried it on this thread and it certainly reversed the order of the posts.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, July 2, 2020 8:03 PM

maxman
Really?????????? Just tried it on this thread and it certainly reversed the order of the posts.

This function works fine for me too, no problem.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, July 2, 2020 8:13 PM

maxman
Really??????????  Just tried it on this thread and it certainly reversed the order of the posts.

Really!!!!!!!!!! 

Recall that you said 'preference checked', which is supposed to be a global setting in 'Settings'.  (More precisely, Settings > Community Settings > Advanced Options tab > Sort Order; 'last posts first' with the 'reverse' option to toggle it.)  That was, and I suspect still is, the thing this forum's code ignores.

Now, you can certainly go up to the top of the page and toggle 'Order descending' and it will obediently do so.  But as soon as you go to another thread you will be right back to order-ascending default.  It gets tiresome to have to keep doing the same setting over and over when it should 'just work'.

Of course there is also the fun that ensues when you have the global set to last post first and you submit a post.  The page and post you are returned to is NOT the one you just came from, and some of the page numbers that are displayed would be comical if they weren't the evidence of poor coding.  (Remember the quiz question: what is the official Kalmbach page number of the page before page -1?)

Perhaps if you signed up to Kalmbach from within the MR forum originally, the complex of different trains.com servers stores some of your metadata in a different place, and the preferences work correctly.  I wouldn't know, because I didn't sign up that way.

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Posted by maxman on Thursday, July 2, 2020 11:22 PM

Overmod
Now, you can certainly go up to the top of the page and toggle 'Order descending' and it will obediently do so. But as soon as you go to another thread you will be right back to order-ascending default.

Yes, you are correct.  It does seem to do that.

Myself, I almost never use that function.  If there is a thread I'm interested in, I just click where it says "so and so replied to this 2 hours ago" and that takes me to the most recent post, no matter where it might be.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 3, 2020 12:46 AM

maxman
If there is a thread I'm interested in, I just click where it says "so and so replied to this 2 hours ago" and that takes me to the most recent post, no matter where it might be.

Well, isn't that something highly sensible I never thought of doing!

 

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Posted by xdford on Saturday, July 4, 2020 4:53 AM

Hardenable Steel may be OK but my personal preference is to have a suitable diameter tinned copper wire.  

Not hard enough?  Cut a reasonable length of the wire and place one end in a vice. Put the other in a power drill and hold it taut but not too tight. Holding it taut, start turning the wire at a steady rate  The wire will both "straighten" and harden and make it more pliable in the manner otherwise described.  Many people take it to the point where the wire breaks.

Many years ago now, a friend who wanted an electric layout with catenary with Sommerfelt items which financially out of the question. We went through the above steps, using a piece of catenary to make a jig, bending the joining loops that Sommervelt used and the short offcuts with the ends bent at 90 degrees to make droppers.

The naked eye could hardly tell the difference and the copper should be a whole lot easier to work with, not oxidise so readily  and be easier to solder.

Hope this helps

Regards from Australia

Trevor

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