Too Intense?

[Anonymous]

This "rant" probably would be properly placed on the "Coffee Shop" thread. The "Shop," however, has pretty much been relegated to a close knit clique of "Insiders" with Topics of a personal, provincial nature. So, stretching the Title of "General Discussion" to its' limits; I'd like to make an observation. From time to time, a response to a Topic may appear to be a bit terse by some Contributor resulting in a full "ration" of paranoic verbage that is misdirected. Most mature M.R.'s that I know have always retained a sense of humor, even in regard to their own efforts. How many times have we looked into our past blunders (after picking up the spikes) and nearly cried from laughter? Recently, there seems to be a lack of good humor in many of these postings which makes for a "too intense" exchange of commentary. Perhaps, if we "lighten up" a bit, these forums will be less a guarded "ego trip" and more a good hearted enlightening "fun read." Sorry if this "hits too close to home" for some but for the vast majority, it may be "right on target." Happy rails to all of you and "keep on smiling."

[AntonioFP45]

Well timed, Ted!

[davekelly]

Ted,
I agree with you 100 percent. I've laughed so many times at some of my modeling efforts that I'm thinking of making a stand up routine out of it.

Yes, some folks do get a little "intense" at times, but it doesn't bother me. There are some things that folks are passionate about - and that's ok. As long as it stays civil.

I'm smiling!

Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer
This "rant" probably would be properly placed on the "Coffee Shop" thread. The "Shop," however, has pretty much been relegated to a close knit clique of "Insiders" with Topics of a personal, provincial nature.

Ted, the 'clique' thing at the CS is definitely not intentional. Sometimes when somebody enters a 'post' on a certain page, new posts get entered and a new 'last page' gets created, so many people don't actually see that person's message. This happened to me on several occasions. But I just kept posting anyway, and soon people did start responding to me.

I've never been voted "most popular" in any social setting, and there a few people in the CS that are very good people but for some reason or other, I share little or no direct dialogue with them - but in spite of that, I still have made a number of great friends on that thread, and I expect to make many more.

I'm sorry your experience with the Coffee Shop was not a happy one. I'd like to invite you back to give the place a second chance, and have a drink of your choice on my tab![:)]

[Bergie]

Here's something for everyone to keep in mind...

With written word, it's virtually impossible to relay the tone of your reply. If we were at a hobby shop, face to face, a light-hearted response would be obvious because of the tone of your voice. You don't have that same luxury here. You can type something that you feel is simply a light-hearted response and the person who reads it can misconstue it as an attack or a slam. Just remember that when you're trying to be funny.

Erik

[tatans]

I must admit after a few terse relies to a question, I could (should) have really thought out my response as to how it may be interpreted, this can change the whole meaning of the topic, my wording can,and will, be completely reversed in meaning and suddenly we are on some topic about Aunt Mildred's dog, I guess it would be up to me to interject at this point and explain the real meaning and get back on track in a civil tone. Spelling is a subject that rears it's ugly head occaisionally, 'nuff said.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Ted, actually, the coffee shop is not the best place for a "rant", because not everyone sees it. If you have ever been a member of a train club, you would find that the coffee shop is very similar in nature.

Ken is absolutely correct when he says that it takes a little persistance to break into the established group. They really are a good bunch of guys when you get to know them. I know that you have visited in the past, but I hope you would be willing to give it another try. Everyone is invited to and welcome at the coffee shop.

To add to what Bergie has said, those stupid smileys can be very helpful. They give your "voice" tone, that is otherwise lacking in simple text.

The bottom line is don't let someone else get you upset here on the forum. Sometimes this is easier said than done.

[Fergmiester]

Ah yes communications. My personal experience has taught me that lack of or poor communications can cause many a hard feeling or crisis. The CS is a tough nut to crack but only because there is so many different issues going on that it's hard to come throught the door and be noticed. Not intentional, not clique just a lot of info and reading. I've missed questions and comments tossed my way. Not because of ignorance or apathy but because of info overload.

80% of communications is non verbal (body language and if you were in the LHS this A.M. with Lisa sitting by my side you would have seen this clearly when the $$$$ came up, Whooa TMI), I digress here, 10% is tonal and 10% is verbal. Where do you think this puts the Forum!?

A month ago I posted, what I thought was a whimsical post on "Mikey, the bridge wrecker". "Mikey" was a kid on a TV commercial who would eat anything. "Give it to Mikey". Anyway Dad got this nickname because of the eating thing. When I said Mikey everyone wanted the kid to be taught a lesson for breaking the bridge but realizing I was refering to Dad, I was the bad kid.[:(] Yes my Dad broke my bridge, so his Diesel could run the MESS! The MESS doesn't run diesels! It does now. Long story short, I got a blast from many quarters berating me and telling me to cut the "Old Guy" some slack. I wasn't upset with him!!!! I love him, honest.

Again it's hard putting feelings into words and is usually left to the pro's so we should take it with a grain of salt and get on with it.

The CS was created because some of us took some heavy flack for being whimsical and looking at the funny side of the hobby and the human condition. To some there was no room for humour.

Anyway Ted back to what you were saying. You're right we should put the humour back in the posts as life is too short.

Fergie

[selector]

As a relative newcomer, and someone who educates officers in the Canadian Armed Forces via on-line discussion groups, I have a bit of experience in these matters. My point is that I have seen very little here that I would term 'objectionable'. I think that every forum has its general tone, and this one is no different.

All of us go off the deep end every so often, and a little forebearance from the reader is generally a good balm for those occasional errors in judgement. I think the first rule of thumb in replying to a provocative post should be a request for clarification. Only with a subsequent response from the originator can/should we begin to form a hard opinion of the person's real intent.

Every person here can object, but should not be 'objectionable' in doing so.

Does that work?

And, yes, I agree that the smileys, while a bit...umm..youthful, or hokey to some, go a long way to dispelling any potential misunderstanding. I use them, and I appreciate the tone they lend to emotion-laden posts when others do.

Yours in Trains,

-Crandell

[Grubby]

Smilies are an essential addition to your post if you want to convey any kind of slant on the message [:P].... the failure to insert any kind of indication as to how the post should be read will leave the reader with only the literal interpretation to choose from [:D]....

For the record smilies are not youthful, although they have a better grasp of what 8-) means [;)]

[Anonymous]

Ahhh...that's better! May every Pike have a Hobo Jungle, a "peek-a-boo" shower scene and "Murphy's Corner Pub!" Failing the above, just a "fluted sides" standard heavy weight Pullman with a "Budd" builder's plate or an under body A/C compressor for a cattle car will do. Happy rails everyone.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer
... May every Pike have a Hobo Jungle, a "peek-a-boo" shower scene and "Murphy's Corner Pub!" Failing the above, just a "fluted sides" standard heavy weight Pullman with a "Budd" builder's plate or an under body A/C compressor for a cattle car will do...

I'm too lazy to do any of those things - I could just post a picture of my layout in its current condition, that would make people laugh!

[Anonymous]

Ken, if I had your layout, I'd burn mine! Please, best regards to Harbor Place and Peabody Conservatory, I miss the old haunts. Regards

[cheese3]

yuppers! [:D]

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: Ted D. Kramer Posted: 29 Apr 2005, 07:40:43
This "rant" probably would be properly placed on the "Coffee Shop" thread. The "Shop," however, has pretty much been relegated to a close knit clique of "Insiders" with Topics of a personal, provincial nature. So, stretching the Title of "General Discussion" to its' limits; I'd like to make an observation. From time to time, a response to a Topic may appear to be a bit terse by some Contributor resulting in a full "ration" of paranoic verbage that is misdirected. Most mature M.R.'s that I know have always retained a sense of humor, even in regard to their own efforts. How many times have we looked into our past blunders (after picking up the spikes) and nearly cried from laughter? Recently, there seems to be a lack of good humor in many of these postings which makes for a "too intense" exchange of commentary. Perhaps, if we "lighten up" a bit, these forums will be less a guarded "ego trip" and more a good hearted enlightening "fun read." Sorry if this "hits too close to home" for some but for the vast majority, it may be "right on target."
Happy rails to all of you and "keep on smiling."

Ted I read your comments last night - as the "first Anniversary/Birthday Party" was underway at "The Coffee Shop." My first reaction was negative ......

Read some, but not all, of the responses last night too ...... my attitude starting coming 'round - not to their way of thinking, but to YOURS.

I "slept on it" and this afternoon, read everything posted - some twice.

Now, I can add my comments:

One of the biggest hurdles with any topic geared to en masse participation is overcoming the information overload. That point has been mentioned, and hits it squarely on the head. Just too much "stuff" for any one reader to gather in BEFORE jumping on with "something" to say.

We all know about those participants who simply log on, say something, then go their merry (or not so merry) way ..... happens. And you know what? There ain't no way of controlling it - it's part of the makeup of ANY open topic on ANY open forum. Just the way "it" is. Then there are the "exploiters" - the guys who just like to "run up" the numbers count - on the way to another (or first) star. It's one thing to CONTRIBUTE to the topic being discussed, it's quite another when nothing but "fluff" is posted. I think some of my posts have fallen into that latter category - I'd like to think my motivation was hardly about stars. I have my rewards in life - and being "bestowed' with stars from the good folks at Kalmbach really isn't what keeps me coming back.

Snobbery? Perhaps - I've felt like many of my contributions have been totally "blown off" - or for those with "sensitivities" - ignored. It never feels good when you put together a well researched piece - perhaps even added some photo's - and nothing - zip, zero, zilch - comes back in responses. But, it happens and I'd rather think it's info overload - throw in a bit of "ignorance," perhaps some snobbery - but I think there's just too much to sort through .......

Fun versus seriousness .... now that's something to think about. I like the idea of injecting some humor - perhaps a lot of it - into the subject being discussed. Whether on the Model Railroading forum - the Classic Trains forum - or Trains forum - a little levity goes a long, long way. BUT - watch it - there awaits the "serious" guy - without humor - who is having a bad day with his trains - his rail experiences - his '"whatever." My attempt at humor may really wind up ticking this guy off - thereby starting the "barbs" being flung. It's so true - we haven't got the ability to check out the body language of the
recipients to what we are typing ..... sure, the graphics help a bit ...... but there's really nothing like the intonations of voice, the facial and eye movements - that's when you KNOW whether your point is well taken or perhaps, offending the other guy. What to do? Think before posting ..... there's no such thing as "one on one" on these forums. Use Email for that .......

Any of this making sense?

So, where am I? I think the IDEA of "The Coffee Shop" is a good one - and it works for the most part. Of course we are going to have those who for whatever their motivation seem to ruin it for others. Isn't that very similar to real life experiences - some games you win, some games you lose, and others are rained out.

I truly believe there are individuals who "inhabit" the net - and I really mean that. Their very lives are so entwined with interaction on the net - it makes me really wonder ...... I know that MY life isn't about to become that way, but then again, I HAVE a life. Perhaps NOT the case with some others. These are the characters who wind up really believing they've become part of a family - a tight knit group - something "special" - it must be sad for them when reality hits home, for example when their 'puter crashes or the power goes off for extended periods. Ommmigosh ......... lost, lost, lost ........

Elliot - Big_Boy_4005 created a great idea - long live "The Coffee Shop."

For me - well, I'll continue stopping by - but not in a regular fashion, nor am I going to fall back into that "trap" of trying to play catch up with the posts should days or weeks pass by before logging in. That's absurd and also very, very time consuming - and for what? Been there, done that and I'll tell you - it gets rather intense - too much so.

Glad you brought up this topic, Ted - but you know what? Those who really need the info contained herein, aren't about to read the posts!

Before signing off from this post - I've read it over, twice - sounds like what I wanted to say. So, I said it!

See ya![tup][;)]

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ted D. Kramer

...under body A/C compressor for a cattle car will do.

What a GREAT idea!!! [:D][:D][:D]

I just added that to my list of one-of-these-days projects -- right after the SD30. [}:)]

Chuck

[Anonymous]

Siberianmo, thank you for your very well stated considerations on the "open forum" concept and their short comings and positive values. I have no quarrel with "Coffee Shop" and believe it to be a positive thread in many M.R.'s lives. When I mentioned the "clique" factor, there was no rancor intended as I appreciate that close bonds are made over Internet "Chat Rooms" and the like. Au contrar, I understand this to be one of the Internet's greatest assets. It isn't for everyone and that is only sensible...what is? No, I mentioned the "Shop" only in passing as not the best vehicle for sharing topics of a "interactive" nature. My Topic "Too Intense," seemed (to me) like "stretching" the M.R. "General Discussion" venue too far since the subject had nothing to do with our hobby. The thrust of my Topic has to do with the intolerance and "too quick to judge" reactions that are ever on the increase among Contributors. If the "Shop" seems too much like "eaves dropping" on smeone's family room in their home, then the polite response is to simply close the door. That's easy! Maybe not so "easy" is for folks to understand the general "light hearted" nature of our hobby lest we become victims of our own vehemence and find contention rather than comradeship. The proverbial "grain of salt" belongs on the palate, not in the wound. Thanks for listening. Best regards and "happy (t)rails to you."

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: Ted D. Kramer Posted: 01 May 2005, 07:35:11
Siberianmo, thank you for your very well stated considerations on the "open forum" concept and their short comings and positive values. ........ My Topic "Too Intense," seemed (to me) like "stretching" the M.R. "General Discussion" venue too far since the subject had nothing to do with our hobby. The thrust of my Topic has to do with the intolerance and "too quick to judge" reactions that are ever on the increase among Contributors. If the "Shop" seems too much like "eaves dropping" on smeone's family room in their home, then the polite response is to simply close the door. That's easy! ..... "happy (t)rails to you."

Ted - The one thing to keep uppermost when engaged in this cyber "personal" interaction, is that it ISN'T really personal - somewhat of a shadow game.

You hit it squarely on the nose with your comment to "simply close the door" when communications begin to border on the intrusive.

As I mentioned to Ken in a separate communique, I'm the kind of guy who says, "Thank you," to those who have done or said something warranting such a response - I speak when spoken to, and hold the doors open for others (not just females). I have zero tolerance for rudeness and inconsideration - not the inadvertent stuff, but the blatant, ain't no way "you could have missed this" stuff.

A 32 year military career instills lots of those values ..... along with an upbringing that brought a swift negative response should I sway too far from the "line."

Well - 'nuf said for me - closed issue.

I'm preparing for those "happy rails" you mentioned. Two complete round trips aboard VIA Rail's "Ocean" - Montreal to Halifax - with a "side trip" to Ottawa on one of 'em. Traveling in those wonderful Budd cars, dome cars, lounges, full service diner - and Alexander Keith's Pale Ale from Halifax - can't wait!

See ya! [tup] [;)]
Tom (Siberianmo)