A little levity from Lionel

[tatans]

Just saw an ad on ebay for a 1977 lionel 027 boxcar, how times change, I wonder today if they made this car in H.O. if it would be a big seller, The boxcar was advertising White Owl Cigars, it had wctx 7707 on the side and on the box was "Tobacco Railroad" Just the influence little Johnny needs to help him on a happy childhood. aaaahhh! progress.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yes, times have changed. I have that complete set of cars, which include Winston, Salem, Prince Albert, Beech-nut, El Producto, Camel, Sir Walter Raleigh, Mail Pouch, and the White Owl, which you discovered. These cars, when listed on Ebay, are commanding fairly high prices compared to what they used to fetch back in the 80's. It seems the anti-tobacco movement has served to make them something of "outlaw"cars.

The answer is no, Lionel did not make these cars in HO. I think it would be more likely that someone like Tyco made something like this.

While we are on the subject of habits whose products are under increased scrutiny, Lionel also made a series of beer and hard liquor refrigerator cars. Today's attitudes toward marketing these products to children have boosted prices on these cars as well. The funny thing is, there are more adults buying Lionel trains for themselves than for children, these days.

What is the world coming to???

[GerFust]

Do companies even use private label cars anymore? I haven't seen any in recent years. I have a collection of cars with brand advertising on them like Ajax, StarKist, Old Dutch Cleanser, etc.

Is that a fad that died?
-Jerry

[Anonymous]

Not sure if they're on the way out - I recall seeing a set of four N scale tobacco boxcars made by Model Power fairly recently. These were definitely in production in the late 1990s/early 2000s.

Regarding the advertising, I think companies are now leasing their rail cars rather than owning their own - this way, if there's a breakdown or accident they are not responsible for finding new cars, repairing the old ones, etc. Also, in the event of a downturn in sales they no longer have to find space for and spend money maintaining cars that are not being used. Certainly in other areas we see this - the shipping industry for example, where a common arrangement when building a new ferry is to arrange for ownership to remain with the bank that funded it, with a limited-time lease agreement (usually around 20 years) for the company placing the order. When the lease is up, they either extend it or start the whole process again with a new ship, while the old one is leased to another user.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I believe that billboard cars are a thing of the past. I'm not sure when that practice went out, it may have ended when wooden cars were removed from service.

Modern cars are generally painted as simply as possible. A single color, maybe a logo, and reporting marks. Of course there are exceptions. Unfortunately, the plain paint tends to invite graffiti.

Here the BNSF has made an effort to add some artwork to their refrigerator cars with the little icicles along the roof line. However, by painting the rest of the car white, they have created the perfect "canvas", and more "art" was added.

[Cox 47]

I think billboard cars were outlaw by the goverment but I am not sure of the date. Train Minuture had a lot of billboard reefers and maybe some tobaco . There was a lot of beer cars By TM and round house Cox 47

[Jetrock]

Billboard cars were illegal by the 1920s--by law, the lettering could not be higher than 12" high on the side of the car. This didn't stop model railroad and toy-train manufacturers from producing models with all sorts of billboards on the side--the model railroad industry wasn't regulated by the ICC.

And yes, society used to be a little less obsessive about protecting children--I remember buying "candy cigarettes" at the candy store as a kid, and then walking around with them sticking out of my mouth, pproudly pretending to puff just like Mom and Dad!

[Anonymous]

One thing to note is that the Lionel tobacco and alcohol cars are from more recent decades and that they never made anything like that back in the postwar years. There's a story about Joshua Lionel Cowen (Lionel's founder) visiting the Lionel factory back in the 1950's. In the product development room there was a prototype for a Ballantine Beer boxcar. Cowen saw the car and immediately shouted out, "What the hell is that?" He then went into a tirade about how "Lionel will never promote products that are bad for children!" Needless to say, the beer car idea never made it any further. I wonder what Cowen would have to say regarding these 70's cars?

As for models in HO, I know that Tyco made a Mailpouch boxcar.

There actually are some advertising cars out there today. I frequently see center-flow hopper cars that carry very large French's mustard logos. I also frequently see light blue covered hoppers with huge Pillsbury logos on them. The Pillsbury cars, however, have very rough paint and have had their reporting marks changed, so they don't belong the doughboy anymore.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Mitch, General Mills bought Pillsbury from Grand Met back in the late 90's. It's like Betty Crocker married the Doughboy, though both brand names are alive and well. Just look in the baking aisle at the grocery store.

The tobacco and beer cars were made during the General Mills era of Lionel ownership. The hard liquor cars were made during the Kughn era.

I don't think that large logos qualify as "billboards".

[philnrunt]

Jetrock- Why did the government outlaw billboard cars?

[lyctus]

Look, I have trouble defining billboard cars on Nth American railroads from the satellite scans I review each day as part of my job as a spook working for the Australian Government, but I am pretty sure I am occassionally picking up a car with "Model Railroader- 70Years" or something like painted on the sides from time to time.....
Could start a separate Forum Topic maybe...
Seriously though, billboard cars were once a feature of Australian Railways in probably a less prolific way than was the case in the US. Did Canadian RR have billboard cars ?

[MidlandPacific]

QUOTE: Jetrock- Why did the government outlaw billboard cars?

QUOTE: I don't think that large logos qualify as "billboards".

I'm not positive, but I think the outlawing of "billboard cars" was meant to stop the practice of leasing advertising space to shippers, something that was common in the first years of the century. I don't think it was meant to prevent large logos (the NP, for example, splashed its identity across boxcars, as did the Southern).

[bpickering]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rripperger

QUOTE: Jetrock- Why did the government outlaw billboard cars?

I'm not positive, but I think the outlawing of "billboard cars" was meant to stop the practice of leasing advertising space to shippers, something that was common in the first years of the century.

I've read that it was to eliminate the somewhat embarassing (to the RR Co.) situation when, you have a boxcar with company A's advertisements on the side delivered to company B, a competitor.

Brian Pickering

[tatans]

lyctus: No, Canadian Railways never had billboard cars, we are still trying to define the term "free enterprise"