What's the Rule-of-Thumb for Ballast

[SpaceMouse]

I have a bunch of track to ballast, but I don't have a clue how much to get and I have to order it from somewhere on the net. what is the rule-of-thumb for calculating how much to get? I don't want ot order too much and pay two shipping costs, nor do I want to order 3 times as much as I need and have it sit.

[twhite]

Chip--
I saw the overview of your layout on "Photo Fun" post, and I'd think that since you have to order it over the net, you might want at least two 32oz jars of the Woodland Scenics ballast. I use a gray mix for my main line, and then mix my own shades for the yards(buff, rust and cinders). Don't worry about getting 'too much' ballast, you'd be surprised at what else you can use it for when you start putting in scenery (gravel roads, edging for highways, etc). I pour a little between the rails, then use a small bru***o even it out over the ties and the roadbed shoulders, then I mist the whole thing with a drop or two of detergent mixed in with water--I use one of those household plant misters you can buy at any supermarket. After saturating the ballast, I dribble on diluted Elmer's glue (50-50 glue and water) with an eyedropper (or you can use the Woodland Scenic's Scenic cement as it comes from the container, it's already diluted for spraying or dribbling). Be VERY careful around your turnout points, as those little gravel granules can really be a pain in the posterior if they get in the pivots or the points themselves. Before you begin ordering the ballast, you might check around and see what kind of rock you're thinking of copying. Out here in Calif, as you know, the railroads use a lot of white and gray granite--other parts of the country, the rock can differ. Now after saying all that--I'd really postpone the ballasting until you've got the rest of your scenery installed. Ballasting is the very LAST thing I do on a particular section.
Tom

[:D]

[SpaceMouse]

They're grey here in PA as well. I painted all the roadbed grey because I knew it was the color I was going to use. Don't have a clue what they used in Harry Potter. (IF someone comes to my house and comments that I have the wrong Ballast for Harry Potter, well, I'll wonder what kind of life they have.)

Scenery first huh? I was going to do a bunch next weekend.

I sure did make the track ugly though. It would be nice to cover it.

[ac4400fan]

I Agree With Tom,,but! in the midwest im seeing alot of the white gray also,,i use med gray mix,woodland seincacs,for my layout ,an by lerning from tom ,the best is with a brush,,but dont rush yourself ,its like building a building ,take your time ,and enjoy,

carl,,,[:p][:p][:p][:p][:p]

[selector]

Mouse, in several very recent threads people say they have used bird crop grit and it might be worth checking out at a pet store. A local cement plant might give (not sell) you a whole bucket full of some fine sand. Large yards staff tend to grin and help you out for nothing...they're in it for the big bucks, and like to hear the little guy ask for help.

I used beach sand, but was sure to clean it and check it for magnetic material.

I found the rusty/brown WS stuff, which I gather is crushed walnut shells. to be a bit light for handling, but I was not very skilled. My sand was better at staying where I left it, especially when I glued.

This is not, in any way, a detracton from what Tom has told you. He knows from experience.

Last thing......before you drop your first grain onto the bed, take a deep breath and tell yourself that you will do it slowly, patiently, and that you will take up all areas that get botched before going on to the next step, especially before gluing. You really need a steady hand, a 1/2" artist's brush, fine haired, and I found that I was holding my breath a lot. Take the time to very gently whisk the sand off the tops of the ties, in and out rail.

It's an experience. But veeeerrrry gratifiying, right guys?

Oh, and the amount you need depends on the height of the ties above the surrounding terrain. On average, though, you'll need about one cup of ballast for each 6" of track. That's a rough guide, but 30 lbs of it will cover a lot of track (30-40'?)

[SpaceMouse]

That's quite a range: 32 oz to 40 lbs.

I have approx 100 feet of track that includes 17 turnouts.

[twhite]

Like Selector, I've also heard that the WS ballast is crushed walnut shells (maybe that's why I have a couple of squirrels come and watch me while I'm ballasting, LOL!). As to your track, Chip--well you should see MINE after it's painted--yech!! Looks like I got it second hand at a garbage dump--but then when you start spreading the ballast, it just starts looking BEAUTIFUL, believe me.
The main reason I do the ballasting after I put in the scenery, is that it looks more natural, and I tend to get plaster spots on the track, no matter HOW well I cover it during the scenery process. It's easier to scrape those little droplets from the ties before they're ballasted, rather than have a big glob of plaster/ballast to contend with, after. And I look at it this way--in real live, the scenery came first, anyway, LOL!
Have fun, and I agree with Selector--whether you use beach sand or crushed walnut shells, take a DEEP breath and say to yourself, "This is going to go SLOW and CAREFUL!" You'll like the results.
Tom [:D][:D]

[SpaceMouse]

I have no problem with slow. It is stop that drives me crazy.

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: That's quite a range: 32 oz to 40 lbs.

The WS shakers are sold by volume, not weight. The same shaker filled with sand would weigh 5-7 lbs I believe. If you do go "alternative" for your source, make sure that you clean, cook, and demagnetize your ballast material. By alternative, I mean any source other than one sold for ballasting, whether its kitty litter, bird grind, cement or beach sand, etc. A lot of people are very happy with the ballast sold by Arizona Rock and Mineral, and Canyon somethin' or other. Both are stone products, prepared just for use to use as ballast, available in a wide variety of colors and blends. You could visit their sites, and hopefully they'll have some info on how much ballast is needed to cover X linear feet of Y scale track.

[trainboyH16-44]

I just started ballasting my mainline with some sort of brown woodland scenics stuff, but I ran out very quickly, but I also didn't have much to start with. So I went and started spreading some WS cinders around my roundhouse where the plywood was showing through and where the turntable didn't quite meet the edge of the hole cut in the ply. It all looks pretty good now!
Trainboy

[jfugate]

SpaceMouse:

This is only an approximation, but it should work for estimating ballast needs:

1 teaspoon will ballast about an inch of HO track. The typical Woodland Scenics ballast bag holds about half a pint, which is about 48 teaspoons. So the typical WS ballast bag will cover about 48" of HO track. The WS plastic jar of ballast is about a pint, so it will do 96" of HO track.

So 100 feet of track will take about 25 bags or 12-13 plastic jars of WS ballast.

[Bikerdad]

According to WS, the plastic containers of WS ballast are a quart (aka 2 pints). There are 6 teaspoons to the ounce, 32 ounces, gives 192 teaspoons, i.e. 192" per shaker, or 16 feet. 100' of track will take a bit more than 6 containers.

The bags are 10 oz, so each bag would be good for approximately 5', per Jfugate's formula.

[cacole]

For HO scale, Cat's Pride litter makes good ballast, and is far cheaper than anything sold as a hobby item. It seems like as soon as the word "hobby" appears on a container, the price doubles or triples. I've seen 2 Oz bottles of Goo Gone, for example, labeled as track cleaning fluid selling for $3 or $4 -- you can get two quarts at Wal-mart for the same price, and there's no difference in it.

[JohnT14808]

Space Mouse...here is the URL for Arizona Rock. Decent prices, but the shipping could kill you if you order a lot of ballast:

email is: [e-mail] Site: http://rrscenery.com

[jfugate]

Cacole:

I'd be leery of cat liter if I were you. It's typically a special clay, made to absorb moisture ... which is just asking for trouble if you try to bond it with any kind of liquid on your layout. Plus some brands they put special scents in it to attract cats ... that's the *last thing* I need -- a cat attracted to my layout!

Various sources of model ballast are not *that* expensive, and I prefer to get something made for the task rather than trying to make do. The other thing to watch out for is stone that contains iron ... it will get into your locos and cause you all kinds of headaches.

I thought I would economize when I first got into the hobby so I took some river sand and mixed it with gray paint, then pounded it lightly with a hammer to turn it back into lose grains again. I showed it to an experienced modeler to display how clever I was making my own ballast. He told me I had better check it to see if it was magnetic. I scoffed at him so he took a magnet, stuck it into my bucket of ballast, and pulled out a big wad of it stuck to the end of his magnet!

Needless to say, I threw out the stuff and went down to the hobby shop and got some "safe" ballast. I've never messed around trying to make my own ballast since from "other" sources ... I've always figured I'd pay someone else to do it right.

[Anonymous]

Im hearing all these warnings about "magnetisim" and such, what is the problem, "this is an "i dont know why" question, not a "why do you do that im right" question.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

I'm a beginner here. Started ballasting my track in a few sections that had scenery completed. All I can say is to go light with it. I followed the general directions one see's in some vid's etc and put a teaspoon on the track between the ties and then spread with a small brush.

Two things I've learned:
1) Use sparingly
2) I'm modelling in N scale and I've found the medium ballast is too large - like rocks. I switched to fine ballast for this scale and results are better.

I ended up picking out a lot from between the ties and around the rails.

As everyone has said, this is slow work, but fun.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TrainBuff101

Im hearing all these warnings about "magnetisim" and such, what is the problem, "this is an "i dont know why" question, not a "why do you do that im right" question.

Your engine is a semi-powerful electro-magnet. If you have iron particles in your sand they will suck-up into your engine and screw it up.

[siberianmo]

Lots of good stuff before this ......

I used Bachmann HO nickel silver EZ track - about 500 pieces for my layout. The stuff comes with "ballasted roadbed" - which translated, means "cheesy looking light grey plastic." Looks like what it is! Anway, I went with Woodland Scenics coarse grey ballast - the 12 oz packages and the 32 oz canisters, lots of both. Never really had enough - made numerous trips to my LHS ..... in spite of ordering a doze canisters via the Internet.

While some "rivet counters" might find fault with the scale - it looks good to me, and that's what counts. I like it and it really changed the appearance to much more realistic. Sprinkled and glued it between the ties too ...... Took lots of time, but was great therapy for my arthritic hands!

See ya![tup]

[selector]

I second that, siberianmo, 'cuz I did the very same. Road bed does look a bit 'high' above the rest of the landscape, but a dam sight better than the grey cheese. If nothing else, it is good experience and practice for the eventuality of having to do it in the future, only with Flex-Track.

[SpaceMouse]

500 pieces. Wow!

I went to my LHS and they did not have ballast of any size, shape or color. They do have a lot of HO scale tanks and armored personel carriers though.

[JimRCGMO]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse


...<snip>...
I went to my LHS and they did not have ballast of any size, shape or color. They do have a lot of HO scale tanks and armored personel carriers though.

Maybe time to see where the next closest LHS is? Seriously, depends on whether the LHS you visited had a run on their MRR stuff, or if they are (as a few HS's are) more into other hobbies than MRRing (for example, some are more R/C aircraft hobby shops).

You want to find (if possible) a LHS with which you (hopefully) can develop a pretty good relationship for your "Gotta have it NOW!" situations. Also, check your (new) LHS's sale bins, discontinued kits you might use for kitbashing (structures or cars/engines), and which RR lines they carry.

In some areas, your local Hobby Lobby may be your best bet (not great on prices, but they usually have the basics - and I've found they have sales on MRR stuff right after Christmas when they don't want to inventory it). Check around, check your local Yellow Pages for hobby shops or however else they list 'em.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,

Jim in Cape Girardeau

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JimRCGMO
[brMaybe time to see where the next closest LHS is? Seriously, depends on whether the LHS you visited had a run on their MRR stuff, or if they are (as a few HS's are) more into other hobbies than MRRing (for example, some are more R/C aircraft hobby shops). [/I hear there is a pretty decent one about 50 minutes from here, but I am not familiar with the area where it is. Pittsburgh is an hour and 15 minutes so the process would be to drive there find a phone book and try to figure where they are. I don't got to Pittsburgh must and when I do it is there and back without exploration.

You want to find (if possible) a LHS with which you (hopefully) can develop a pretty good relationship for your "Gotta have it NOW!" situations. Also, check your (new) LHS's sale bins, discontinued kits you might use for kitbashing (structures or cars/engines), and which RR lines they carry.

In some areas, your local Hobby Lobby may be your best bet (not great on prices, but they usually have the basics - and I've found they have sales on MRR stuff right after Christmas when they don't want to inventory it). Check around, check your local Yellow Pages for hobby shops or however else they list 'em.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,

Jim in Cape Girardeau

Mine LHS is an Internet Slot Car dealer. To his credit the owner has come to our train club and threatened to join so he could learn about the hobby. He hasn't actually made it back though.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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