Using Real Dirt for scenery, and Buying it!

[Anonymous]

First of all, thanks to Joe Fugate for an awesome thread on scenery.

Joe talked about the difficulty of using real dirt. I had the same experiences he talked about when I tried to use real dirt a decade or two ago. It looked great in my mom's flowerbed, but as soon as it was sifted, baked, and placed on the layout, it was WAY too dark!!! (Just as Joe said).

However, I'm encouraged by Pelle Soeborg's article in the April 2005 MR. He said he used Arizona Rock & Mineral dirt. I googled them and found this site: http://rrscenery.com/

I'm once again tempted to try real dirt. There's something inside of me that has a problem with buying "dirt", but I just might try some of this stuff.

Has anyone had good luck with real dirt?

My journey down the road of real dirt may include buying dirt from different sources. I could imagine finding some sand made for such-n-such application that makes great piles of gravel, for example.

Unfortunately, I haven't found prices for the Arizona Rock & Mineral stuff, so I don't know if buying the stuff would be out of control or not.

[Anonymous]

I''m using real dirt on my new layout. I've done some sample applications using some sifted top soil and it was very dark, much more than it appears outdoors in natural light over a large area. I harvested some dirt from the old D&H road bed near here which is more sand than soil and while it looked too light on the gound, it was more to my liking. If the snow ever melts & the ground thaws a bit here, I'll be able to fetch more to continue with the scenery.

Wayne

[jwr_1986]

Most of our dirt is black. it's great to plant in but wouldn't look too good on a layout.

Jesse

[Anonymous]

I had the same problem.

Switching to lighter dirt and using sand-colored paint to hold it down instead of glue solved that...



(the new dirt is on the right)

[hminky]

I use common Home Improvement Store Paver Sand, it contains no clays and is clean. I have a web article discussing my theory at:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/gravel/



Thank You if you visit[:D]
Harold

[Anonymous]

I've used finely sifted real dirt - actually "dust" on my modules and dioramas. I got mine on a ball field near home plate, the dirt there was well pulverized and very fine. (This was NOT during a game! [:D])

I sifted it several times to remove the larger particles and teeny rocks - saved them for other scenic uses. I've used both sand colored paint to hold down the dirt, and also dilute white glue.

On a trip to Colorado in 2003 a friend and I picked up a small plastic container of local dirt in Silverton - can't wait to use some real narrow gauge dirt on my next project!

Bob Boudreau

[selector]

Same experience as most of you. Drove past a sunbathed bank of dirt at the side of the road near our house and said to myself, "Hey, that is nice light coloured dirt, and fine, too." So, I sifted out about enough to fill a plastic bread bag one day, and took it home to sprinkle around the layout. Very nice effect, but it is at least four shades darker indoors.

Maybe it could be aprayed with a lighter wash prior to adding ground cover?

[underworld]

I've used real dirt.....but I don't buy it. There are lots of differnt colors and shades of dirt where I live.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Casey Feedwater]

I started using tile grout about a year ago and like it. After I put it in place, I wet it with 91% alcohol (using an eyedropper) and then cement it with dilute acrylic matte medium.

The two photos below are "in-progress" photos and were obviously taken before grass, weeds, etc. were added. The tile grout "dirt" was placed directly on pink foam and then cemented with the matte medium.

[Jetrock]

Here are a couple of shots of my uses of dirt. The dirt in both cases was taken from the soil around the prototype location (Haggin Yard, north of 19th and C Street, Sacramento) that I am modeling, so I know it's pretty accurate for my purposes!

I filled a coffee can with dirt, brought it home, sifted it, ran a magnet over it to get out the big metal particles, baked it at 250 degrees for an hour or two, let it cool, and stored it. I typically apply it over a surface of dark grayish-brown paint (Roof Brown or Railroad Tie Brown) with an alcohol/matte medium treatment, like one would use for ballast.

Using dirt from Mom's flowerpots isn't the same because potting soil is much darker than the sort of clay dirt you'd find in a natural setting. The dirt depends on the soil of the area you're modeling--some dirt is more reddish, some more tan, some more dark brown, some more gray. Photos of where you are modeling can help you make this determination.

About darkening dirt: Anything real-world that we bring indoors is going to look darker, because our layout lighting is not as bright as the sun. Personally I find that the alcohol wash I use to get the glue to penetrate the dirt lightens things up a bit--that and I use fairly bright layout lighting. The shots below are lit with a 120 watt halogen from about two feet away...

And if you can grab some dirt from the actual site, like I said, you're pretty sure to be right on the mark...

[Anonymous]

I've used cleaned, sifted and baked beach sand. Even though outside in its natural light it looks very light and yellow, it darkens to a brown when glued, but looks good as scale "gravel" driveways, etc. Most other dirt I have tried is also way too dark. I used to have a whole bucket full of sand from White Sands in New Mexico. Wish I had it now!

[jfugate]

Guys:

One trick you can do with real dirt to lighten it appropriately ... as long as the dirt is a nice fine powder, mix it with some white plaster. The plaster will lighten it, and the pigment (real dirt) is often free.

Myself, I like the precise coloration control of mixing my colors, but if you want to use real dirt, lighten it with plaster (experiment to get the right amount of lightening).

[Anonymous]

Joe, first of all, your layout looks outstanding. (I enjoyed it in MR a few years back too!)

In glancing at your site, I didn't see any close up shots of your "dirt". The color is awesome. Do you have any closeup shots of what your plaster/pigment mixture looks like?

I'll be making a very small shelf model railroad, so I'm concerned about the texture as well as the overall effect.

[Anonymous]

I should add, I know dirt will look real up close because it's, uh, dirt!

When I've seen some older layouts from the zip-texturing days, the aged zip-texturing (I never really understood what it was - sort of before my time) didn't look so hot. But old dusty dirt always still looks like dirt.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

I should add, I know dirt will look real up close because it's, uh, dirt!

Still, though, it's important to screen it well so it looks like dirt & not big clumps of dirt that your LPB's will trip over it. Weird, but like water, it has a scale to it.

Wayne

[AggroJones]

These pictures kinda suck, but here's the dirt in my yard before I add weeds and stuff.


I use blends of 3 types of dirt I found. One near a light railstation, one in a field down the street, and one in my back yard. The lightest color served as the main base of the blend.

[Anonymous]

Aggro: That is some nice dirt man!

I Like!!!

[dwRavenstar]

"Unfortunately, I haven't found prices for the Arizona Rock & Mineral stuff, so I don't know if buying the stuff would be out of control or not." --- CARRfan

Under AZ Rock and Mineral catalog, check for the box beneath the price list for foliage.

(All ballast and scenery products are $5.30 per package or $4.30 for six or more plus freight on all shipments. )

Gotta admit it had me confused for a while too.
[%-)]

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[steveblackledge]

We have Moles, small rodents (do you have them in the States) living near our house, they do the hard work of digging up a nice redish brown fine soil / sand mixture, thay make small hills about 8"high, all i do is scoop up the molehills into a bucket and dry it and the stuffs ready to use. I also use crushed brick dust, as bricks come in all colours just pick a brick and smash it up, just don't do it without eye protection.

[TurboOne]

OK I have to ask, why do you bake dirt???

Nice looking layouts above, Haven't got to sceney yet, but copied some websites to my trians folder for future reference.

Tim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TurboOne

OK I have to ask, why do you bake dirt???

Simply to kill the nasties that might be living in it. No need to invite them on you layout.

QUOTE: Originally posted by steveblackledge

We have Moles, small rodents (do you have them in the States) living near our house, they do the hard work of digging up a nice redish brown fine soil / sand mixture, thay make small hills about 8"high, all i do is scoop up the molehills into a bucket and dry it and the stuffs ready to use...

Someone has to ask, Steve, so it may as well be me: Do you also make mountains out of molehills?

Wayne

[potlatcher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

Guys:

One trick you can do with real dirt to lighten it appropriately ... as long as the dirt is a nice fine powder, mix it with some white plaster. The plaster will lighten it, and the pigment (real dirt) is often free.

Myself, I like the precise coloration control of mixing my colors, but if you want to use real dirt, lighten it with plaster (experiment to get the right amount of lightening).

I tried Joe's suggestion from his scenery forum clinic to use dry tempera paints mixed with plaster to simulate dirt. As I explained in that forum, I had been using real dirt mixed 50-50 with Durham's water putty, but it was still too dark. So today I bought some brown and black tempera and tried three different combinations in the range of 15% color to 85% plaster. I found a formula that gives me color similar to photos from my prototype location, so I think I'll stick with it.

[Ibflattop]

Hey if anyone want a mole I have got one free for the taking!!!!!!!!! ( HehHEhehe) Kevin

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: OK I have to ask, why do you bake dirt???

Once I was in a hurry and decided I would use some real dirt on the layout without baking--in a week or two my layout started sprouting grass!

[steveblackledge]

QUOTE: Someone has to ask, Steve, so it may as well be me: Do you also make mountains out of molehills?

Wayne

it had to happen, depends how big the mole is, they are very handy little rodents (unless they live on your lawn), they break down the dirt into a lovley fine mix thats almost ready to use as long as you get it while it's fresh and dry.