Tonight's accomplishment: Proto2000 Type 103 tank car kit constructed

[rrinker]

I started one a long time ago, but never finished. Had all sorts of troubles breaking grabs while trying to remove them from the sprue. Plus there was one bit of detail I missed when I bought the kit - it has a pressure test date of 1962, and my era cutoff is 1956.
So while browsing at the LHS this afternoon, I found a nice plain black SHPX version of this kit, and decided to give it another go. Started about 7:30, and about 11:30 tonight it was completed and rolling around my layout. No broken pieces.
After the fiasco withthe first one, I put it aside and started on a Branchline Blueprint boxcar - call me crazy, but I found that to be a LOT easier, even though it had even MORE tiny pieces to cut off sprues. But now, the tank car was a breeze. I made a couple of modifications to the instructions. Main thing was driling out ALL holes on the tank. Then, i glued allt e grabs ont he tank BEFORE assembling it - opposite the order in the instructions. That way I could glue the grabs from the inside. Then Step 4, I think it is, gluing all the tank saddles ona nd then trying to fit the tank on (recommend slow drying glue). They must be crazy. I mounted the tank to the underframe and THEN slipped the saddle assembles in with no problem.
Now I need to build some more - if I can find the other road numbers. LHS had 2, but both were the same.

--Randy

[dknelson]

I got so tired of breaking those grabs that in one P2K car I used metal grabs instead. Not as fine looking but at least I can handle the *#&%^%( car without disaster

What precautions did you have to take to keep from breaking the grabs while you finished the car? In addition to the difficulty of installing those P2K plastic grabs they are so darned delicate that my usual foam car holder breaks them off when I put the car in it to fasten trucks and couplers.
Dave Nelson

[tstage]

Randy,

You did well to finish a P2K tanker kit in 4 hours. Was it a "Time-saver" or regular kit? I've put together two of the 8000-gal. tankers and a box car and it always takes me a while to assemble them.

The first one took me 8 hours to put together, but that was because it was the first P2K kit that I had ever assemblied. Nice detailing but , I have to agree, some parts are a bit fragile. Rewarding, to say the least, when you get one done though.

I sure would like to see P2K come out with more variety of rolling stock in kit form. I'm hoping that they don't go strictly RTR, like some of the other manufacturers have.

Tom

[twhite]

I've got to hand it to you--actually building a Proto2000 kit. I don't have any luck at all with them--nothing seems to want to fit where it's supposed to. I don't have any trouble at all with Intermountain or Red Caboose, but I've got three Proto2000 partially-built kits and the boxes are stored somewhere in my garage. Must be just me, because I hear really good things from everyone else about them.
Tom[B)]

[cacole]

The Proto 2000 tank car kits are just about the most difficult ones I have ever tried to put together. Too many small, brittle parts that are easily broken just trying to cut them off of the sprue, let alone being able to put them in place.

I found a Proto 2000 tank car that was pre-assembled for only $2 more than the kits, and considered it worth the extra price to pay what was no doubt some child in China with smaller fingers and better eyesight than I to assemble it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

The Proto 2000 tank car kits are just about the most difficult ones I have ever tried to put together. Too many small, brittle parts that are easily broken just trying to cut them off of the sprue, let alone being able to put them in place.

I found a Proto 2000 tank car that was pre-assembled for only $2 more than the kits, and considered it worth the extra price to pay what was no doubt some child in China with smaller fingers and better eyesight than I to assemble it.

[#ditto]Life is too short. Though I usually buy kits to save money, tank cars are the one thing I'll only buy RTR - I have too many unpleasant memories of the last time I assembled some MDC tank kits.

[selector]

Same for me. I tried the tanker as my first ever kit, and it was not the most rewarding experience of my soon-to-be 53 years. In fact, I took it back to my LHS because I could not get one of the truck's mounting screws in far enough to keep the tank upright while it sat on the track. He has given it to an old pro to fix (had it for six weeks by now!). Still, I can see that it is a wonderful kit...IF youare skilled, have the right tools, and have some experience with, and appreciation, for the finer aspects of MRR.

[Leon Silverman]

Tools recommended for removing pieces from sprue: Sprue cutter or Zuron Rail Nipper. - The plastic will not wear out the tool. Cutting the pieces with a X-acto blade, even a sharp one, bends the grabirons and causes them to break.
Prior to inserting grab irons on model, ream out holes with a slightly oversize drill bit.
All assembly accomplished under a lighted magnifying glass supported on a pantograph.
To avoid breaking the grabirons when attaching the trucks or couplers, put them on first before attaching the grabirons.

[tstage]

Have to agree with Leon's recommendaton. I use flush-cutting Linstrom cutters. I first trim the part from the sprue with the cutter, then trim any leftover nib again with either the cutter, #11 x-acto blade, or file.

Flush-cutting (vs. "flesh-cutting") cutters do not put stress on the part you are trying to cut. A good pair is worth it's weight in gold. They also make great hang nail clippers, too. Even if you do all the above, some of the parts are still a bit delicate.

Tom

P.S. Selector - Ow! You sure picked a doozy of a kit as your first project. I think it was my 3rd or 4th, after a couple of Accurails and an MDC caboose - which had some of the most nebulous directions I have come across so far as of yet.

[rrinker]

Do not even THINK of using a Xuron sprue nipper for these kits! That's what I did wrong with the first one, and broke all the darn grabs.
This time, I put a fresh #11 blade in my knife, and kept my soldering iron on, with the blade leaned on it to keep it warm (don't go too long between steps or...OUCH! the knife HANDLE will be hot). I cut ALL pieces with the number markers DOWN, this kept the part and sprue pressed close to the bench top. Press down with your other hand, don;t just rely on th knife to press down against the cutting surface. Only 1 grab broke, and that was already broken on the sprue out of the box. But they give you 2 extras.
I built a pair of the 50' Automobile cars and they were pretty easy, except getting the brake platform with its little support brackets in place. But the Brnachline ones are no easier.
I haven't seen a RTR version for under $20. This kit cost me $10.
Oh, and no, this was NOT the Timesaver version. I haven't been able to find the Timesaver tank cars ANYWHERE. ANd they did 3 or 4 different numbers in the Timesaver version, too, so I could have quite a little fleet if I could find those.
Selector - gotta start with some easier ones. Athearn, Accurail, or Branchline Yardmaster. Then move up to somethign a little tougher, like a Red Caboose boxcar. Or a P2K gon or hopper. No one's tank car is good for a first kit. The one I broke the grabs on was far from my first kit. I've only done a couple simpler ones in between giving up on that and getting this one, but for some reason this one went fairly easily. It could be because the other one I got at a train show and who knows the storage conditions, whereas this one came fromt he LHS and was always in an indoor climate controlled environment.

--Randy

[tstage]

I still have to stick with my Linstrom's. They aren't cheap but they are excellent cutters. (They'd probably run ya' around $50.) The P2K tankers have A LOT of small parts. Even the directions can be challenging to deciper the 2nd time!

Randy, have you actually seen a P2K gondola? Does one actually exist? I've never run across one, either in my LHS or the LifeLike web page.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Tom,

There were tons of 50' gons around a few years ago. Nice kits. I still see em' on Ebay. Randy, welcome to the club. I always cut out all the parts to the tank kits at once (No, I don't get confused about which part is which), this takes almost an hour. I usually break a couple of grabs, fortunately they give you extra. I have found the best way for me to cut out the grabs etc, is with a sharp #11 knife and a corner of a board that I can put under the piece to support the part while I cut it out. I position the corner so the at the part is resting directly on the surface. A neat trick to weather these guys is to weather the tank before assembly. No painting around railings this way.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage
Randy, have you actually seen a P2K gondola? Does one actually exist? I've never run across one, either in my LHS or the LifeLike web page.

Tom, I have a few of their 55ft 'mill' gons, lettered for P&LE, with drop ends.

(They're packed away, though, if you want a photo you'll have to wait until I get home later tonite...)

[selector]

Don't I know it, guys. Ignorance is bliss...................at first.

Maybe I should start with a snap-together. You know, something for people with more than one opposing thumb per hand. [:I]

[Anonymous]

Randy, any pics?? If so, I'd love to see the completed projects

[rrinker]

Yeah, I'll add it to the list. Seriously, I need to take about amillion pictures. If you go by my web side you'd think I just have one little stretch of track down. But I have both mainline loops completed and partof the yard lead, plus a couple of the siding turnouts on the back edge are now in place.Not to mention the wiring, and my nifty hinged mounting board for the bus wire terminal strips (room for future addition of Tony's Power Shield circuit breakers).
Oh yeah, and more decoder instll pictures, although much as I figured, as I got near the end of each install I kept plugging away rather than stop after each operation and snap another photo. I REALLY gotta stop doing that. I really got to get a better digital camera, too, but that's another story.

--Randy

[dknelson]

One tool that has come in handy for assembling P2K and similar kits is a set of small reamers for the pre drilled holes -- don;'t over do it but it really can help the plastic grabs slide right in. Reamers are like pins with slight abrasive edges
The grabs are so delicate that they cannot absorb any real pressure whatever, so the ideal is for them just to "fall" in their holes -- easier said than done
I agree with Leon and others also about a flush cutting sprue nipper. The Xuron tool is just a bit too coarse for this work in my experience. A super fresh #11 blade also works BUT the way they have cast the grabs, the sprue is thicker than the part making it just a bit tricky. I had not thought of heating the blade. Maybe I'd use my wood burning tool as a heat source -- just a bit less dangerous than a soldering iron.
I might add, I made a bit mistake with my P2K 50 ft flatcar and used some Walthers Goo -- can't remember now whether it was to hold the weight in place or what -- but when the plastic deck was fastened it formed a perfect seal and the gasses from the Goo caused the deck to bubble up and warp! Darndest thing I have ever seen. I replaced the deck with one of those nice laser cut wood ones -- and yeah, I busted off a grab iron doing it!
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

They're neat kits. I've built about 6 of them over the years.

I think the first one I did took about 3-4 hours to assemble. Time well spent I thought.

A sprue cutter is a must. I found that even a cheap one is better then using an X-Acto.

Alvie.

[rrinker]

Wish I could take credit for that idea, but actually the concept of heating the knife blade is right on a seperate sheet packaged with the tank car. MAYBE one of those tweezer-size sprue nippers would work, but anything else is just too large for these fine pieces.
As far as the holes - I drilled out all the mounting holes with a small drill in my pin vise. Makes the parts fall into place, plus cleans paint off the sides of the holes. And, on the tank body itself, the holes now go all the way through the body, and, since I altered the order of assembly a bit and put the grabs on BEFORE assembling the tank, I could glue them all from the inside for a neater job.
The other key tool is a FINE tipped bru***o apply cement (I used Tenax 7R). VERY fine. Or one of those needly-type gluing tools, but I haven't tried one of those yet. Other people swear by them, but the tiny brush works well too.

--Randy

[Leon Silverman]

Heating the blade is recommended by the Proto 2000 kit instructions ( or maybe it is Branchline) , but it is bad enough to be surrounded by sharp edged tools when you are asembling a kit. Who wants to get stabbed by a HOT sharp tool. In addition, if it should touch a visible surface of the plastic kit, it will reshape the plastic and ruin any paint touched by that hot surface.

[rrinker]

Maybe I didn;t heat it enough then, it was only wam, not real hot. It wasn;t so hot that it melted its way through the sprue, I still had to cut. Anyway, unless you have a plastic or wood handled one (mine are all metal), if you make it THAT hot you'll burn yourself picking it up. It seemed to help, just being warm.

--Randy