Handlaying HO track: Spikes vs. PC ties & Solder

[Anonymous]

For all you track do-it-yourself-ers out there, which do you prefer?

Some Pros I see for Solder & PC ties:

- Could use cork roadbed
- infinite adjustment available

Cons:

- Can't use pre-weathered rail (which may be a pain for making turnouts anyway

As for Spike Pros:

- Could use pre-weathered track
- No stinky solder


For those that solder to PC ties, and don't use pre-weathered rail, how do you weather your rail afterwards?

Thanks in advance for some insight...

[wp8thsub]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan
Cons (for Solder & PC ties):

- Can't use pre-weathered rail (which may be a pain for making turnouts anyway)

As for Spike Pros:

- Could use pre-weathered track

I've never been a big PC tie fan. I'll use them for throwbars but I spike everything else. Once you develop a good eye for trackwork, all the infinite adjustment possible by resoldering rail on PC ties isn't necessary. Many people handlay turnouts with only a few PC ties at the frog and points plus a couple elsewhere and fill in with wood ties. I started with that method but quickly found that I liked using all wood ties better. Wood ties don't have foil to come loose.

I build turnouts from weathered rail and it's not a problem. A file or wire brush in a Dremel tool will remove the weathering from the necessary areas quickly enough.

QUOTE: For those that solder to PC ties, and don't use pre-weathered rail, how do you weather your rail afterwards?

Unweathered rail can be treated with chemical metal blackener like Blacken-It or with gun bluing chemicals. I like how the blackened rail holds paint, and any chips in the paint will simply reveal a black/brown color instead of shiny silver.

[Anonymous]

wp8thsub,

What do you use for roadbed? That's a con of spikes I neglected to mention - they can't be driven into cork for sure. I've played around with hand-laying directly into pine 1 x 4's, etc., but am at a loss as to what to use for elevated roadbed.

Interesting about the foil on the PC ties.

Alright, that sounds pretty doable - buffing off the weathering of the pre-weathered rail with a wire brush in a dremel tool.

To my eye, nothing looks as cool as nicely handlaid track on stained ties. Mmmm Mmmmm.

[dinwitty]

I handlaid my layout years ago and well, handlaid spikes are too big.

My first switch I built was a doubleslip.
thats a learning experience.


most today's flex track have excellent detail.

I will never lay down all PC ties, I used them to aid switchmaking.

I will be using all flex and brand switches for the detail wherever possible, except for really special customwork.

one module

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

I handlaid my layout years ago and well, handlaid spikes are too big.

What do you mean too big?

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

most today's flex track have excellent detail.

Very true, and with a price tag to fit the level of detail!

Call me crazy - something really cool about even "building" the track yourself!

I've often thought it would be fun to create a diorama with a super large radius turnout - something you could never buy.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

wp8thsub,

What do you use for roadbed? That's a con of spikes I neglected to mention - they can't be driven into cork for sure. I've played around with hand-laying directly into pine 1 x 4's, etc., but am at a loss as to what to use for elevated roadbed.

A Luan plywood would work fairly well. I believe there is a product called Homabed, made from Homasote. There is a dense paper board called (sp?) Upson board. Basswood would work. You are right about cork though.

[Don Gibson]

Our club (Columbia Gorge) makes their own turnouts and uses PC ties - and solder's to them for permanence, AND electrical conductivity, Everything else (other than turnouts) is spiked. Only 5 or 6 ties are needed to hold a turnout's shape and wood is used in-between to fill in for appearance.

At home I prefer swich kits (BK) that can spike into place using an NMRA guage..Amazing how derailment's disappear..

[tutaenui]

I have used both methods. PCB is stronger but spikes are more realistic and probably less work. On my current layout track is spiked at every sleeper and looks good. I have used a few PCB sleepers at key areas in the turnouts for strength and stability.

[wp8thsub]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CARRfan

wp8thsub,

What do you use for roadbed? That's a con of spikes I neglected to mention - they can't be driven into cork for sure.

I use Homabed http://www.homabed.com . It's excellent stuff and holds spikes very well. There are a few modelers with success in handlaying track on cork. Ted York (the Cajon Pass layout in "Great Model Railroads 2005") used cork in his San Bernardino precooler plant trackage, and it's been holding up well. He did ballast the area soon after the track was in, and the ballast adhesive might have a lot to do with keeping the track in that area stable.

QUOTE: Originally posted by dinwitty

I handlaid my layout years ago and well, handlaid spikes are too big.

Depends on which spikes you use. I'm using Micro Engineering's small and micro spikes, and they're pretty compatible visually with their flextrack. On a friend's layout I just handlaid track across a big trestle with the micro spikes, and they're nearly invisible from normal viewing distances.

If I had the disposable income, I'd probably use a lot more commercial turnouts, but until the big lotto winnings pour in I'll handlay for cost reasons, but only partly. I've used a number of brands of commercial turnouts, but haven't found any that operate as well as those I scratchbuild.

[Paul3]

I don't use PCB ties if I can help it. My club does, but they are relatively weak compared to the other methods.

I don't know about all this adjustablility with PCB ties. I can tap over a spiked rail pretty easy on wood ties, and I can run my eye down the spiked rail and tap it over one way or another with a small hammer and a flat screwdriver, instantly. If I tried to do that with PCB ties, I'd have to get the iron out and heat up the joint, then hold it in place until it cools and hope it's straight... No thanks.

As for roadbed material, both my club and I use pine. Yep, we make it ourselves on a tablesaw. I start with a 1x6" medium grade pine board (selected carefully to be as knot-free as possible). I cut it into 1/3rds (1x2"), then stand these pieces on edge and run them through, cutting them so that they are a 1/4" thick. After that, I put the shoulders on them by tilting the saw blade.

Pine is good stuff to work with, and holds spikes very well. You do have to cut slots in it to bend it for curves, but that can be done by putting a saber saw upside down in a vise.

If I didn't have access to a table saw, I would use Tru-Scale roadbed before I used Homabed. At least Tru-Scale is wood...

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

I've handlaid a lot of ties and track on cork and tru-scale roadbed and didn't have any trouble with either. But then I was doing it before there was a PCB. After the switches are spiked to the ties they aren't going to move. Be sure a use "low profile" ties as that cuts down on the amount of ballast that you have to use.

Bob

[Anonymous]

Paul - thank you for the roadbed info.

Taking 1 x 6's, and turning it into roadbed. I could get into that!

You see, having just purchased a house within the last year, I've been able to acquire a lot of tools for "the house". (as a sidenote, many of the new "house" tools double nicely as killer model railroad tools! - tablesaw, air compressor, etc.!)

That would totally work. As I mentioned above, the only handlaying I've done so far has been spikes into pine - 1 x 4's, etc. They go in beautifully.

I would imagine you want the roadbed to be at least as deep as the spike is long, right? Or at least as long as the spike plus the height of the tie.

Installing lots of flooring at home, I've gotten very good with chamfered (bevelled) edges, etc. on the table saw.

Yeah, make my own roadbed. I could get into that!!! Thanks for the tip. This sounds nicer than trying to exhale all evening and not breathe in too many solder fumes.

I also appreciate the comments above about soldering being not so easy to adjust. I could imagine it could be a bit difficult. Theoretically, it just seems like there'd be unlimited adjustment, because it could be heated and re-cooled at any time.

Then again, if solder is touched up with paint, etc., I could imagine trying to make adjustments could get ugly, and definately stinky!

Thanks for the tips folks.

[Paul3]

CARRfan,
If you do it right when you make your own roadbed, all you should have left over is sawdust and maybe some splinters. Just be very careful when making the final cut and use a push stick for sure.

Oh, and double and triple check the alignment of the rip fence everytime you move it. If it is off even a little, it will result in crooked roadbed. Also, double check the squareness of the blade. It's critical that it's 90 degrees.

For board selection, be very, very picky. Don't be afraid to dig deep to find that perfect board that's almsot free of knots and almost perfectly straight. Of course, you could buy clear pine, but that's twice as much. I can get a medium grade 1" x 6" x 10' for $10, while clear pine costs $20 for the same size. Don't buy these from Home Depot or Lowe's. Go to your local lumberyard where the quality is bound to be much higher.

As for thickness, I've never had a problem and neither has my club. And we've used every kind of spike, from Walthers to MicroEngineering to Varney. None had a problem going too deep.

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

Paul, thanks for the tips. I'm a mechanical engineer, therefore a total freak when it comes to parallel lines, etc. As a matter of fact, the main attraction to my table saw was that the fence rides on a rack & pinion on the front & rear of the fence, so it is always very parallel.

I drive my wife crazy installing flooring & molding in the house - I cut & cut & cut & measure & cut until everything fits "just right".

Good tips about safety to share - yes, using a push stick is extremely important. I grew up with a great grandfather who was missing a couple fingers, so I've always been super cautious with power tools. It only takes a split second of not paying attention to lose a couple fingers!

Thanks for the wood selection advice - very good advice!! Thanks!

OK - back to installing floors so I can start a model railroad one day!