A question for British Modelers

[Ltjps24]

I recently aquired a couple of books written by the British modeler, Iain Rice. He mentions the scale; 4mm. Could someone tell me if this is the British OO scale or close to HO, N, or O scales that we use in the US? The book, Designs for Urban Layouts, has some great ideas for layouts and I can't tell if I could adapt them for use in HO scale.

Thanks [?]

[challenger3802]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ltjps24

I recently aquired a couple of books written by the British modeler, Iain Rice. He mentions the scale; 4mm. Could someone tell me if this is the British OO scale or close to HO, N, or O scales that we use in the US?

Yes, 4mm is the British Outline scale for OO, adopted way back by Hornby Dublo. Its closest relative for US running is HO (3.5mm). Only when two trains (one OO and one HO) of the same type are put side by side is the difference seen.

All layouts designed for HO are easy to put straight into OO (and vice versa), without having to re-scale anything.

The only noticeable difference between the two systems is the height of the platforms and clearances needed. British prototype locos are narrower than their US counterparts.

Hope this helps
Ian

[novacoach]

It's a historical accident (allegedly due to the size of motors when the hobby was developing) that the track is 16.5mm but with 4mm to the foot
4mm gives 18.83mm as 4'81/2" P4 is the exact scale and EM - the more common fine scale gauge- is - for some reason that I don't know - 18.2mm.
There is a small band of 3.5mm GB modellers - they had a stand and layout at Warley our big Autumn show and one of our mags Model Trains International runs articles.- the same mag that got me into US HO. Rice has produced some fine "fine scale" layouts and has produced similar books for the UK market

[steveblackledge]

in a nutshell it was motor size that dictated body scale size, the monster lumps of metal would not go into a 3.5mm / ft scale bodyshell so they went up to 4mm / ft scale
to accomodate the motors

[tatans]

Sorry , off this exact subject: What was the reason British locomotives never had (have) headlights, this has been a mystery to me, wouldn't it be hard to see what you hit at night???

[Anonymous]

Basically they didn't need them. Locos carried small marker lights in specific patterns so signalmen could spot them and recognise the train as a specific working, but there was no need for the train crew to be able to see anything except signals - in the steam era people riding the footplate after dark marvelled at how the crew knew where they were - they were navigating by the lineside signs (eg whistle, gradient, etc) and the signal positions that they had learned over a few weeks. Over here, all railways have to be fenced off by law, so there's not as many problems with animals, etc on the lines. More recent locos have both marker lights and high-intensity headlights fitted, presumably to increase visibility for both crew and track workers (diesel locos had their cab ends painted yellow for a similar reason - their decreased noise compared to steamers caused a few accidents with track workers not hearing them coming). Hope this is of help!

[Ltjps24]

Thanks for the info!

[DSchmitt]

American HO scale is actually half of British O. British O is 7mm=1ft (1/43.3) which is much closer to the correct scale for O gauge track than American O scale is.

American O is 1/4" = 1ft (1/48) ,but uses O gauge track which is not correct being 60 inchs in that scale instead of the correct 56 1/2 inches.

[Anonymous]

British OO scale is 1:76 ratio as opposed to HO which is 1:87 .Most proprietary brand products are designed to use the same 16.5mm track as HO modellers which is strictly speaking too narrow for OO scale.
The OO steam locomotives do not look too out of scale beside a USA steamer as the loading gauges are much smaller in the UK due to the original 19th century planners over there (hence the problem for early modellers trying to fit the bulky model electric motors into their smaller width locos).
However the coaches do look a bit odd as the windows appear much larger than their USA equivalent even though the carriages may appear to be the same height above the rails as HO scale ones.
I model both HO and OO. I just keep the two scales visually apart when running!
Anything goes on my layout . . . Fun comes first! [:)]

[M636C]

There was an even more confusing product, in the late 1960s and early 1970s Trix, then independent, and not part of Maerklin, decided to make some models in a compromise scale about half way between OO and HO. OO was often quoted as "4mm=1 foot" and HO as "3.5mm = 1 foot", and these were about "3.75mm= 1 foot". I know because I have some! The only locomotive I have is a British Railways class 52 "Western" (I think "Western Enterprise") in Maroon. I have two sets of four BR MkI cars, one in Maroon and one in Western Region brown and cream. I have two Trix steam locomotives, Eastern Region classes A3 and A4, but they are full size for OO and use the same basic mouldings as the current Bachmann models. That didn't stop them being sold with the smaller passenger cars!

As to size comparisons, I have the Fleischmann HO class 42 "Warship" and a Mainline (now Bachmann) OO equivalent, a Lima OO class 52 to compare with the Trix unit, and "Eurostar" trains in each scale, both from Hornby.

Most people don't believe the size difference until you show them a real comparison. The Fleischmann model is a little too tall, but is exact scale otherwise, and I'd recommend it to anyone wanting a British locomotive in HO scale for whatever reason.
Fleischmann also make exact HO scale coaches, and Rivarossi did too, with a "Royal Scot" in LMS livery. This is the locomotive that came to the USA in 1933, although more modern cars came with it, if anyone wants an excuse to run such a model.

Peter

[pedromorgan]

the only yime i have ever thought something really did look the worng scale was when i saw both the hornby and the hornby/jouef eurostar next to eachother. i now bolieve the hornby OO model to be slightly too tall and also slightly too short. making the problem look worse than it really is.

dont forget, brittish rolling stock is smaller anyway due to its loading gauge. so when you put brittish OO and foreigh HO next to each other they look fine.

interestingly hornby once again has posession of the HO eurostar moulds which they COULD release under the Lima brand in future. there would definatly be a market for it.

there were also a couple of odd-balls besides the one the other Peter (great name buy the way!) pointed out. in N gauge lima also produced some locos and wagons that were from a very obscure scale that didnt match anything else and looked utterly rediculous. i actually run one of their N gauge brake vans (caboose) behind a OO9 loco and it looks great!-it really is that bad!

Peter (another one!)