H O collectables.??

[Anonymous]

The toy train market has many highly priced & valued collectables from the early days through the early & late 50's. Does the HO market had any valued sought after collectables????? how about when lionel came out with HO, are they worth anything????? Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Thereis a Yahoo Group whose members mostly operate vintage HO models, perhaps someone there can enlighten you: [e-mail]

Bob Boudreau

[dknelson]

I have seen Lionel HO, especially the first stuff from circa 1960, go for fancy prices especially if it is in original boxes. I think Lionel's OO is also a collectable, and is very rare.
Some of the better brass from PFM has sold at auction at high prices, and early Maerklin HO brings value. Some of the Varney engines in mint condition would probably bring some money -- on the other hand I have seen old Varney at swap meets selling for very little (and more importantly, nobody was snatching it up).
The thing about HO is that in many cases even fairly early stuff such as the Bowser Challenger and the Mantua 2-8-2 continued to be made (or is still made) for decades, with improvements in many cases, so there seems no real point in valuing the early production. And in the case of Lionel, I think their second wave of HO might not be collectible because many of the cars and engines were taken over by other makes once Lionel gave up on HO again.
Maybe the big problem is that old Standard and O Lionel and Flyer were expensive toys when they were new so they tended to be kept, often in very good condition. I think scale modelers are more ruthless and when something wears out or no longer looks up to date, it is more likely to get tossed, particularly since in the 1950s I remember Model Railroader running editorials to the effect that there would never be a collectors market for HO, so stuff probably got tossed routinely. Another factor was the contempt for plastic that a lof of modelers had in the 1950s.
And scale modelers tend to alter and rebuild and repaint things, and once altered there is no collector value to it. The whole nature of scale model railroading argues against keeping anything in mint condition.
The other thing is that VERY early HO freight cars were often pressed paper, and the early locomotives and car frames were zinc alloy. Neither ages well -- zinc alloy tends to crumble (Lionel had this same problem with their O streamliners and famous Hudson), and paper wears and warps. I have some paper cars probably from the late 1930s and while they are amusing to show to visitors I am not sure I will ever run them on my layout.
There are things such as the Penn Line Reading Challenger that were never popular models to begin with and bring collector value if in good condition. Rare enough that the only one I ever saw was a junker.
Dave Nelson

[eastcoast]

The major HO manufacturers put out an annual price catalog
on their entire line of products. It is set up like the Beckett pricing
mags. A price for pristine, used, baseline. You have to personally
contact a manufacturer to obtain a recent copy as they do not publish
the info to the general populas. Athearn published a pricing guide a few
years ago in which I do have. They are out there, you have to do the work.

P>S>
[:0] A word of wisdom, DO NOT ask a dealer or vendor about a certain
piece you may have WITHOUT them consulting a reputable source. I
was given BAD appriasal on a loco and came to find that it was worth
MUCH MORE too late.[:0]

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of highly collectable HO trains. They are mainly of the toy or ready-to-run variety as opposed to scale and kit-built models. Vintage European trains by Marklin, Fleischmann, Hornby, Tri-ang and Trix/Trix Twin have a strong collector following.
Check out www.spur00.de to see the various kinds of collectable European HO/OO trains that are ot there. Also see www.tri-ang.co.uk for Tri-ang trains. As far as American trains go, Lionel, Marx and American Flyer all put out HO lines in the 1950's and all of these trains are collectable today. I myself have a large Tri-ang collection as well as some Marklin, Fleischmann, Marx, Lionel and others. Also, there are HO trains made by various Japanese toy companies (almost always battery-powered) that are collectors items now. I've taken quite an interest in vintage Japanese toy trains and have a large collection of these.

Another area of HO trains that most people don't think of as being collectable is Tyco from the 1970's. However, there are collectors of these trains. See http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/

[Anonymous]

So what is driving up the price of modern day Brass? Are there modern classics to look out for?

[trolleyboy]

I think you have to pick and choose Brass certainly keeps it's value and it's by nature collectable as it's always with few exceptions limited production.Of coarse I found over the years that Brass by being brass does not neccessarily mean it will increase in value.I've noted that custom painted ie you or your best painting friend puts an amazing paint job on something may actually hurt your resale value as some collectors concider only the virgin unpainted out of the factory model as "mint" so if you paint it you might as well run it. I'm told only factory painted brass will be concidered mint by some of the collectors out their as well so whom do you beleave?It's funny I was thinking the other day that our highly detailed Kato P2K and Atlas plastic loco's can become collectable now as well since most of these manufacturers are doing smaller and smaller production runs all the time. The new brass? Just a thought. Rob

[CNJ831]

Let's be realistic here, fellas. There has been a small NMRA HO Scale Collectors and History Special Interest Group (of which I'm a longtime member) for something like twenty years now and these guys will be the first to tell you that there is no such thing as a collectible market for American HO in the sort of sense there is for Lionel, Flyer or Marx. Yes, there are guys out there who collect Tyco, Aristo-Craft, et al. HO but you'll also find guys who collect paper clips and string! Such small-scale, personal interest does not a collectible market make.

After decades in the hobby, Eastcoast's comments about the major manufacturers putting out an annual price guide to their entire product line comes as a total surprise to me! Greenburg produced a couple of so-called price guides (Varney and Athearn among them) for one of which I was a consultant. Unfortunately, these contain absurdly inflated, unrealistic evaluations. But short of these I know of no such references published by the various manufacturers.

Yes, certain early brass locomotives by Varney and Mantua, unique and rare locomotives like PennLine's Reading Crusader, or one-of-a-kind engines by well known early custom builders, do command significant money but these are far from run-of-the-mill vintage HO stuff that you will ever see at shows, in hobby shops, or even generally on eBay and there are no hords of collectors lusting after them.

Overall, there are some special, valuable, HO items out there that very well versed hobbyists may be on the lookout for but it is unlikely the average model railroader will ever be aware they even exist. So, if you want to collect vintage locomotives by the H.O.Train Co. of Philly, more power to you but realize it is just an individual fancy.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

Since we are on the subject, what would be the point of having say a KEY Class A, over, BLI Class A?. Are the running charteristics of the brass worth the extra money? Or is matter of having brass because you can?.

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oren

Since we are on the subject, what would be the point of having say a KEY Class A, over, BLI Class A?. Are the running charteristics of the brass worth the extra money? Or is matter of having brass because you can?.

The running characteristics aren't necessarily the prime factor of consideration in the purchased of brass locomotives.

From one perspective, quality brass locomotives were for a time viewed as art objects just like collectible sculptures or paintings and worth investing in, especially during the 1970's. Before that bubble burst, many people outside the hobby were buying them up strictly for investment purposes, which caused their value to spiral. Some of that mentality is still present today and, admittedly, a quality brass loco can be a better investment and return than even the best stocks and bonds.

On the other hand, anyone who has ever owned a large, quality, brass locomotive, like those from KEY, OMI, et al., will laugh at the idea of comparing the brass version with a plastic one! While high-end plastic diesels may (or may not?) rival similar ones in brass, there simply is no comparing a really good, recent issue, brass steamer with a plastic version when it comes to detail. For the most part, brass locomotives are bought as display items to look at and not necessarily to operate on a layout.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

Great info! Based on what i am reading, are there 2 kinds of brass? in other words, display pieces versus operators engines? Which manufacturers would fit in those catagories?

[SPFan]

To my mind if an item today can be readily sold for a higher dollar amount than it originally cost it might be considered collectable. Brass and maybe some craftsman kits come to mind. If you factor in inflation then almost no HO item is worth more than what was paid for it.

Pete

[aloco]

Some Tyco stuff is collectable.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone noted that people not into model railroading sometimes think any old trains are collectable? I've seen boxes of toy trains at local flea markets with outrageous asking prices. They are usually the remains of a train set, with track, engine, cars, power pack, etc., all jammed into a cardboard box, and a marked price of $50.00! Geese - the original toy train set would have cost $25-35 when new.

An antique dealer who offers his junque at area flea markets once had an Athearn heavyweight passenger car on his table - for $25.00. They could be bought new (at the time ) for about half that amount.

It's probably that many of the great unwashed public have heard of the high prices that some Lionel trains fetch, so any toy train is automatically in the same league.

Thanks but no thanks! [tdn]

Bob Boudreau

[eastcoast]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNJ831

After decades in the hobby, Eastcoast's comments about the major manufacturers putting out an annual price guide to their entire product line comes as a total surprise to me! Greenburg produced a couple of so-called price guides (Varney and Athearn among them) for one of which I was a consultant. Unfortunately, these contain absurdly inflated, unrealistic evaluations. But short of these I know of no such references published by the various manufacturers.
Overall, there are some special, valuable, HO items out there that very well versed hobbyists may be on the lookout for but it is unlikely the average model railroader will ever be aware they even exist. So, if you want to collect vintage locomotives by the H.O.Train Co. of Philly, more power to you but realize it is just an individual fancy.

CNJ831

CNJ831,
I went and researched this very thing myself and did in fact contact offices
of HO production lines to determine listings of out-of-production items I hold.
It does indeed require alot of patience and run around to obtain needed
information. I was informed by several offices that they would send me unit
pricing for my requests. Maybe not the entire catalog,as if I may have sounded to
note. I am not in the market to buy and sell in bulk or do trades and made note
to the offices of this.
By doing this type research, I came to find an out-of-production Mantua CN box
(circa 1984) had noticable value since it is rare.
By giving advice to others, I try to emphasize that they seek the originator of the
products and not to settle on a figure given by those who will "turn a profit"
EastCoast

[dknelson]

I have had the same experience as Bob Boudreau -- "antique" dealers trying to sell Athearn or MDC cars that are still made, but at 2 times or more the current retail price. I think they get stars in their eyes from looking at Lionel values (and there is plenty of old Lionel that does not sell for huge prices either).
On the other hand sometimes you get valueable stuff for very low prices. I bought an entire box of Milwaukee Road and C&NW employee timetables at a flea market for $30. An expert told me each one was worth $30 or more, and the box held dozens.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for your responces on this. Most interesting & informative. you all take care. easter

[darkstar974]

QUOTE: Originally posted by aloco

Some Tyco stuff is collectable.

I have a bunch of tyco HO stuff from my childhood

Dark