Our Father passed away at 91 and left an amazing train layout. It was in featured in Model Railroader magazine twice. First was June, 2003 and again in July, 2007.
This train layout was our Dad's Mona Lisa and we want to preserve it if possible. Our first choice was to donate it to a Children's Museum and hope a railroad club would operate and maintain the layout. The big problem we seem to be facing is the size of the layout. It is 40 feet by 30 feet and was not built to be moved. It is not modular. We really are not interested in selling off pieces of the layout.
Another option would be a club looking to operate a layout in their facility.
My mother is planning on moving and if you want to live in Flint Township, Michigan selling the house to a train lover would be choice number 3.
I'm very open to great ideas and leads to a home for the train layout. My family is willing to support the move and rebuild of the layout.
Thanks in advance for your help and ideas. I'm sure the members of this forum understand exactly how we feel about preserving our Dad's masterpiece.
This is a reminder to users that it is against the rules to buy and sell things via this Forum. It's perfectly fine to offer advice, arrange a giveaway, share offline contact info (unfortunately chat doesn't work any more), but not to discuss items for sale. Thanks for complying.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
airwolf Our Father passed away at 91 and left an amazing train layout. It was in featured in Model Railroader magazine twice. First was June, 2003 and again in July, 2007. This train layout was our Dad's Mona Lisa and we want to preserve it if possible. Our first choice was to donate it to a Children's Museum and hope a railroad club would operate and maintain the layout. The big problem we seem to be facing is the size of the layout. It is 40 feet by 30 feet and was not built to be moved. It is not modular. We really are not interested in selling off pieces of the layout. Another option would be a club looking to operate a layout in their facility. My mother is planning on moving and if you want to live in Flint Township, Michigan selling the house to a train lover would be choice number 3. I'm very open to great ideas and leads to a home for the train layout. My family is willing to support the move and rebuild of the layout. Thanks in advance for your help and ideas. I'm sure the members of this forum understand exactly how we feel about preserving our Dad's masterpiece.
Unfortunately I think you're going to have a very difficult time finding someone to take the layout. It's free-lanced and as stated in the article, most of the structures are from commercial kits, so the layout has no historical value.
Children's museums have largely changed their focus from hands-off, behind glass displays to interactive, hands-on experiences. And most don't have 2000+ square feet of space to dedicate to something like that layout. (The layout would need to be expanded to make it accessible.) I also don't see clubs willing to take on the task of maintaining it; they face a difficult enough task in attracting new members just to keep their own layouts operating. The layout would need to be reliable and easily repaired by museum staff; having it inoperative for days or weeks until a club member has the time (and can get the resources) to fix it isn't acceptable.
Forum members seems to generally understand that the value of a model railroad lies in the construction and operation the by layout builder. Any value afterwards is purely in the second-hand market for items that can be non-destructively removed from the layout.
Strip off the saleable(unique-well constructed) buildings, remove rolling stock. Order a small dumpster and cut the layout into sections that will fit in the dumpster. The first cut is the cruelest. Sawzall's are great, be sure to get a bunch of extra blades as you most likely will be cutting through nails and screws. Sale of saved items can be through on line sites, train clubs (rummage sale), and train shows. Don't expect anywhere near the prices that dad paid for his items. 50% would be a goal but be flexible on any offers. Be prepared that some items will not sell at any price, Be prepare to dump them. I know it hurts emotionally.
Did Dad have friends that might interested in purchasing any items? Would they also be willing to add input as to value the saved items? My best railroad friend died several years ago. We had an agreement that "last man standing" was to dispose of the others stuff. I listed the stuff on the site that shall not be named and disposed of 90-95% of the items. It took an entire summer and the total volume filled and emptied a three stall garage twice. Netted thousands of dollars.
You'd be surprised the stuff that people buy.
Check in MR. There are a few resellers that will buy estates. Pack it all into boxes, ship to them, they appraise it as to what they have to pay and still be able to make a profit when they sell it. Quick and easy
Hope this helps. I'm sure others will also have input. Best wishes.
Mark B.
AEP528Forum members seems to generally understand that the value of a model railroad lies in the construction and operation the by layout builder. Any value afterwards is purely in the second-hand market for items that can be non-destructively removed from the layout.
I agree with this. As much as you may hate the idea, it may be necessary to scrap the layout.
Since you are not interested in selling parts of it, it is unlikely you have any course left but to cut it apart and scrap it.
I guess the first thing I would do would be to advertise the locomotives, cars, and maybe some of the buildings. Don't expect to get anywhere near the prices your father originally paid for them.
I don't believe you will find anyone willing to buy the house with the layout in it -- if they did they would probably scrap it.
As AEP stated, the value of a layout is usually in how much enjoyment the owner gets out of building it and operating it.
Sorry to hear about your father's death. It sounds like he enjoyed the hobby and was very good at it.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
you could always donate it to a club.
A "used" model railroad retains surprisingly little of its purchase price, so donation does really seem like the way to go. You might get a tax donation.
If you have any model railroading clubs in your area, look them up and give them a call. It's unlikely that they would have the space for the whole thing, but you might find someone willing to help you dismantle it or who might be interested in certain sections, like maybe a turntable or a cooling facility.
MR magazine always has a few ads for buying trains. I don’t know how these companies work, but if there's one close by they might make an offer.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have had this happen twice in my extended family.
In the first instance, a local railroad museum had indicated before his death that it would move the entire layout and everything on it or associated with it to the museum. It never happened. After 10 years passed, two nearby relatives demolished the layout and the structures and put it all in a dumpster. The locomotives and rolling stock were boxed up and remain in the basement to this day.
In the second instance, the layout was demolished after the owner's death and the locomotives, rolling stock and electronics were all sold piecemeal on eBay.
My advice would be to do the latter, that is, sell what you can on eBay and demolish the layout. In the somewhat recent past, one of our forum members did just that so that the layout would not become a burden on his widow and other family members. He demolished a bedroom layout and sold everything piecemeal on eBay, earning a tidy sum in the process.
Rich
Alton Junction
There are people / companies who will review a layout and make an offer to buy everything they think they can sell - Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, and the NMRA Bulletin often have ads for these folks. It might not hurt to try contacting one of them.
Unfortunately in scale railroading, except perhaps for brass locomotives, things just don't retain their value. One thing I'd ask is did he have any books? There is a pretty strong market for old books about railroads, especially high-quality hardcover books. Again, there are folks who buy and sell railroad-related books that you could talk to.
Folks who buy and sell used trains and books often sell at model railroad flea markets, it might not hurt to attend one and talk to them. Maybe take some pictures of what you have, and a list of any books (title, author, publisher - 1st edition?).
I told my family to let the local club(s) have at it with my layout, take what they want to keep or sell at a train show or online, and use the funds for the club. Unfortunately, most layouts end up in the dumpster no matter how much love has gone into them. As others have said the enjoyment comes from creating the layout, I think your Dad probably knew in the back of his mind it could not be saved.
Sorry for your loss.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
airwolf The big problem we seem to be facing is the size of the layout. It is 40 feet by 30 feet and was not built to be moved. It is not modular. We really are not interested in selling off pieces of the layout.
The big problem we seem to be facing is the size of the layout. It is 40 feet by 30 feet and was not built to be moved. It is not modular. We really are not interested in selling off pieces of the layout.
One other thing to consider, and it relates directly to this statement. The articles say that the layout is in the basement, and according to the scale on the plans, much of the layout is 4-6 feet wide. I think you'd be shocked at just how small the layout pieces will need to be to get them up stairs, through doorways, and around corners.
Your best bet would have someone tear it down for you in exchange for any parts they may want. You can exclude real valuble stuff and sell it separtly, things like brass engines but even a lot of those have little value.
Sort of like building a boat in the basement out of expensive components.
Complete layouts are the equivalent of a sunk cost in accounting. Once funds have been spent acquiring materials and equipment, and time expended building and operating, those funds are gone. There is no stored value in the layout that equals the dollars (and money value of time) spent on the layout. What those dollars (hopefully) bought was enjoyment and good memories. Yes, there is value in individual pieces, but that value is captured through a sales process, which entails expense and time.
Like others have stated, my wish is to give a couple of friends salvage rights to track, buildings and equipment from my layout; all of the rest of my stuff which is still NOS in original boxes will go to Stout Auctions; the layout itself is to be dismantled and thrown into a dumpster.
Thanks for all the replies! I just want to be clear, our goal is not to make money off the layout. You all have been pretty clear it is just to big to be adopted. We are talking to a museum about donating whatever they want and trashing the rest. The children and grandchildren will take a few buildings off the layout to remember it.
Living in Cincinnati, I know how popular the train layout at the museum center is. I really was hoping to duplicate that experience somewhere else.
If you are with a club or museum and have interest, let me know. Again, we are not selling it.
rrebell Your best bet would have someone tear it down for you in exchange for any parts they may want. You can exclude real valuble stuff and sell it separtly, things like brass engines but even a lot of those have little value.
I once helped with dismantling a layout where this was the agreement. And those of us doing the work left with very little. We only had a description of the layout from the person who contacted our club, and it turned out there wasn't much that any of us wanted for ourselves. Some things were sold, if we ended getting even $100 I would be surprised.
airwolf Thanks in advance for your help and ideas. I'm sure the members of this forum understand exactly how we feel about preserving our Dad's masterpiece.
The OP has not come back yet, it could be the usual first time poster disappearing, or it could be a feeling that the forum members don't appreciate this statement.
Please understand that we all appreciate model railroading efforts, and to be featured in two magazine articles is a great accomplishment.
Those of us who responded here also appreciate that any hobby is just that, a hobby. It's an activity or pasttime for the participants. We are realistic about the value of our hobby items to others.
Maybe you'll be lucky and find someone who will take the layout. Maybe the plans in the magazine aren't accurate and there's a large doorway where you can take 6x12 foot sections of the layout out. I think you need to be prepared for dismantling the layout and trashing large amounts of it.
Since the OP is new, it could be he has replied but it's still being monitored / reviewed. Or they selected the option to be notified of any replies - which I guess often doesn't work.
To modify something I talked about - selling it all to someone who buys and sells entire collections will probably get a lot less money than selling everything on Ebay. But on Ebay the OP would probably find only a few items per month actually selling, and then have make numerous trips to FedEx or UPS to mail a boxcar to this person and two hopper cars to that person etc. over a period of years.
It seems that OP is not a model railroader and has little working knowledge about the value of his dad's trains.
As we all know, the items that can be converted into cash are the engines and rolling stock. Perhaps the track turnouts if removed carefully. Perhaps buildings too. But selling that stuff piecemeal takes a lot of work, and some idea of what it should fetch. I suppose you can set everything with an opening bid of a penny and see what it gets, but its a lot of work for possibly little gain.
I think the OP's best approach is to sell the engines and rolling stock to a resale store, like Trainz.com, and then be prepared to have to pay somebody to dismantle the personal work of art his dad built over the decades. Finding someone that has the proper space to fit it, and the desire for an exact model railroad of that size, shape, era, etc. would seem very remote.
- Douglas
As I replied in another thread, my neighbor's husband passed away and it was her intent to have the junk man come in and trash everything . I offered to take all the loose items, plus non-ballasted turnouts and code 83 flex. Had a table at the Amherst show and sold a bunch of stuff. After taxes and a small commission to cover the table cost, she ended up getting around $2,200. She was very happy.
We didn't try to gouge anyone on prices, nor did we try to get the maximum eBay price. If someone offered less, sold!
And the individual above who said that one might be surprised what others would purchase is correct. There were a couple electrical gadgets that I wasn't sure what they were, but possibly DCC reversers. A guy came along and bought all of them.
Another individual bought a set of passenger cars. These had been kit built and one car had a side missing. Pointed that out to him. Didn't care. Seems that the train ran around a ceiling loop and that side would never be seen.
The layout in question seems to have quite a number of supurbly detiled craftsman structures (FSM, South River, etc.). With a sawzall and some care these can be removed piecemeal from the layout - I've seen similar structures go easily for $200-300 a piece on Ebay (I've considered buying, but I have plenty "in the box" that I have to build myself). So there is considerable value there, not even considering the locomotives and rolling stock - it is a question of putting in the effort to capture it.
This is the key statement the OP made:
"We really are not interested in selling off pieces of the layout."
York1 This is the key statement the OP made: "We really are not interested in selling off pieces of the layout."
That may be so, but if any other suggested option is not an option, then that sort of leaves only one other option:
The John Allen route.
BTW, Frank Ellison sold his legendary Delta Lines and the mover managed to destroy it by getting into a major accident enroute to its new home.
More than one NMRA Division is helping fund its operations by accepting donations of entire layouts. They put together a team to see if the layout, or key parts of it, can be removed and saved and sold, and sell off rolling stock and structures (and perhaps key features such as turntables, bridges and entire staging yards). If the layout cannot be moved they take on the task of dismantling and perhaps the family need only get a "Bagster" or two for the debris.
Because it is for the good of the group the members work for free to do what might otherwise cost a pretty penny to do: demolish the layout. True this puts no money in the surviving family's pockets (although if the Division is a 501c3 there might be a tax deduction for the donation provided a fair value that the IRS won't challenge can be arrived at.
Some families ask to keep some momento of the late modeler's artistry -- a particularly nice structure and perhaps an entire small scene.
I can say that railroad and other museums around here have made it plain that they do NOT want donations of any layouts. Even if the layout is a work of art, it is almost impossible to reassemble it as a work of art. I know of two glorious layouts that are crumbling to bits in old boxcars at two different RR museums. Remember that even the famous V&O could not find a taker. Anly famous (in its day) Delta Lines had a similar fate. It was the move (a series of moves actually) that finally killed it. Fortunately a few structures were saved. The layouts I know that were saved and moved were on the smaller side.
Dave Nelson
Good reply, Dave. We haven't heard back from the OP who probably doesn't like what he is reading in this thread, but the hard reality is just what you state.
Sorry, I posted after about 10 replies, but either the moderator stopped it or I hit the wrong button. I did click on the box to receive replies, but it has not worked.
I do appreciate the comments. What you have been saying is the response we have been getting while reaching out to clubs and museums. We are still trying.
Our hope here was someone would be part of a club or organization that would take on the layout. Only need one yes!
As I said in the first post, we are not trying to make any money. We want to find a home for the layout. We understand that great effort will be required to cut up, move and re assemble the layout. We are willing to underwrite that effort with money.
Again, I appreciate the comments. I'm not a model railroader, but understand people going overboard in their hobbies. I'm an ex-USAF pilot, retired Delta captain, small airplane owner and owner of 13,000 aviation books. My kids are cringing and the number of books. I'll try to plan better for the disposition of the books than my Dad did for his trains.
So keep the ideas flowing!
This is my third relpy to the OP! Maybe this one will make it to print? What I have read on this thread is what I expected. I was hoping for the unexpected. Tomorrow a club from Detroit is coming to salvage the layout.
Appreciate the replies, but the tech on this forum is not so hot. I did request email replies. Never got one. I sign in and it says bad credentials, but shows me logged in. Then takes forever to get to the thread and then my replies never get posted.
Thanks for replies and ideas.
airwolfWe are talking to a museum about donating whatever they want and trashing the rest.
A local organization here, the Twin Cities Model Railroad Museum, has a "garage sale" a couple of times a year, where they sell off items that has been donated to them, but they can't use. They also have a gift shop that offers some of the donated items for sale year round. So if you do donate to a club or other org they might do that rather than just trash what they can't use.
Although I understand you don't want to make money on the layout, it may well turn out that the only alternative to the dumpster is to sell all the reuseable pieces (structures, engines, cars, electronics perhaps, etc.) to one of the people / companies that buy used train stuff to resell. That way, at least the items will have a chance to go to someone who can use them. I know I'd rather have my train stuff end up in the hands of some other modeller rather than have it all just thrown away.
Hi airwolf,
I'm glad you found someone to take the layout who will make good use of the usable items.
You have every right to be unhappy with the way the forums have been operating lately. Model Railroader has just been purchased by another publisher and we are hoping that the new guys will put some money into the forum software.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!