I wanted to add a consist of passenger coaches to my layout (Grand Valley Plus). I made the mistake of buying a set of three Model Power Harriman 67 Coaches and I truly hate them:
1. All 6 trucks has wheel spacing way too narrow. I regaged the spacing to HO standard and that extended to axles to where there was too much friction being squeezed within the trucks.
2. The wheels don't roll flat on code 83 track. The O.D. of the wheel edges is too large and contacts the ties which keeps the wheels from making flat smooth contact with the rails.
3. The couplers are very sloppy combined with flexing of the thin warped plastic chassis. They also feel way too light.
4. The don't even look all that good and 67' is a tad too large for my layout with 18" curves.
I could probably make these things work better but it would be like putting lipstick on a pig.
I'm thinking about tossing them and going with Roundhouse 50' Overland coaches. Are these any better? Are the old ones decent? Is there any substantial benefit going with newer releleased sets? Any other 18" friendly decent coaches?
TIA
You could start by replacing the wheel sets with metal ones. Changing the couplers out with upgrade kits from Kadee will help too.
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
davefrI made the mistake of buying a set of three Model Power Harriman 67 Coaches and I truly hate them:
From the rest of your post, I am going to assume that you bought these used, and I am not aware of Model Power Harriman coaches. Are these a re-release of the old Roundhouse Harriman cars under a new label. I kind of think maybe not.
My Roundhouse Harriman passenger cars have decent trucks and RP-25 wheelsets. These will be tuned and the wheels replaced with 36” Kadee wheels before they touch the rails.
-Photographs by Kevin Parson
davefr1. All 6 trucks has wheel spacing way too narrow
I am assuming you mean the wheels are out of gauge.
Replacing these with Kadee wheelsets (or any better brand of your choice) will fix the problem permanently.
davefr2. The wheels don't roll flat on code 83 track. The O.D. of the wheel edges is too large and contacts the ties which keeps the wheels from making flat smooth contact with the rails.
These sound like Deep Flange “Pizza Cutter” wheels. These were common among train-set quality models, which is the market Model Power was targeting with most of their products.
Once again, Kadee wheelsets are the solution.
davefr3. The couplers are very sloppy combined with flexing of the thin warped plastic chassis. They also feel way too light.
Kadee again… replacing the cheap Model Power couplers with something better will alleviate your frustrations.
davefr4. The don't even look all that good and 67' is a tad too large for my layout with 18" curves.
67 feet should be OK on18 inch radius curves operationally, but ascetically, not so much.
50 feet is also a tad too much for a good appearance on 18 inch radius curves.
18 inch curves are the realm of small diesels and forty foot freight cars. I do not think any passenger cars, other than the Roundhouse Overton cars, will look good.
The Overton cars are an 1800s stylized passenger car.
davefrI could probably make these things work better but it would be like putting lipstick on a pig.
Well, if they are the Roundhouse cars, they certainly are not a pig, just an older style of model production. If they are a lower quality train set type of maybe, maybe so.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I found an example of the Model Power Harriman passenger car.
Yeah, these are garbage.
Toss them in the trash and buy the Roundhouse Harriman, Overland, or even Overton cars.
Athearn/Roundhouse is doing a run of 36' and 50' passenger cars soon here - if you are into buying new, that would be the way to go imo - I'd recommend the 36' for 18" radius, but you could probably get away with the 50'. Otherwise, keep an eye out for older Roundhouse ones at train shows and online auctions
I have a 5 car set of Roundhouse Overton cars lettered for V& T. They are from around 40 years ago. They are very good, track well, and are 18" radius friendly. Just needed to add weight to each car.
Paul
You can't go wrong with Roundhouse!
Leave the Model Power cars on a staging/ rip track somewhere in the background.
They can also be repurposed Diners around town.
Rust...... It's a good thing !
SeeYou190Yeah, these are garbage. Toss them in the trash...
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
The new Atheran stuff is the old roundhouse stuff already built. The old stuff was great. The 50' stuff runs fine on 18" radius but it dose not look as good as smaller.
Apart from the wheels and couplers, there is not a huge difference between the old Roundhouse Harrimans and these models of Model Power. By the way, Model Power sold many types of passenger cars from various manufacturers - I would not make any blanket statements about what they've sold in the past.
Throwing them in the garbage bin? An entire set?? I would donate them to a local club first. Some folks would be more than happy to get such a set for free. With very little work, they can become very smooth running pieces. I bought some MP pieces in the past, originally manufactured by Frateshi. I changed the wheels and mounted the couplers on the body. They run very well and are quite unique for my prototype.
Simon
Depends on what time period you're modelling. The MDC/Roundhouse/Athearn Overland 50' cars are based on cars built by Pullman in the 1870s-1880s.
If your layout is set in that time or up to the 1920s (or if you want to run a modern day tourist train, like Strasburg RR does), you might consider the Bachmann "1860-1880" coach and combine cars. They come with metal wheels and body mounted couplers. You can get them fully decorated, or painted / unlettered in green, maroon, or yellow so you can add your own RR decals.
https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_316_323
I thought the 50' metal passenger cars were 20th Century...
EDIT: my bad, I see that the MDC 50' overland are wood, not metal.
Generally, a passenger car with open end platforms, instead of enclosed vestibules, will be a pre-1900 car. Usually they would be wood. In the 20th century some wood passenger cars were rebuilt with steel, but these were usually larger (70-80') more recently built cars; older, shorter cars generally were just scrapped in the 1910s-20s, or transferred to Maintenance of Way service.
wjstix Generally, a passenger car with open end platforms, instead of enclosed vestibules, will be a pre-1900 car. Usually they would be wood. In the 20th century some wood passenger cars were rebuilt with steel, but these were usually larger (70-80') more recently built cars; older, shorter cars generally were just scrapped in the 1910s-20s, or transferred to Maintenance of Way service.
Definitely depends on your prototype though! Some railroads (even in the great, cold north) kept them in service very late, particularly if they had fallen on hard times in the post-WW1 recession. Others rebuilt open vestibule cars with closed vestibules as well, which wouldn't be the hardest project to do on your layout, especially if you are repainting anyways.
The OP hasn't (unless I missed it?) said what time period he's modelling. For heavyweight cars from the 1910s-on, Athearn's heavyweight RPO, Baggage, and Coach cars are all full size but still will go around 18" radius curves, as will the shortened (72' instead of 80') Sleeper, Diner, and Observation. Athearn streamlined cars will all do 18" too. Might not look great doing it, but 34' wood open-platform cars on say a 1950s layout won't look right either.
I agree that era should be a key deciding factor here.
The only times I actually saw Model Power's Harriman cars on hobby shop shelves they were offered in military paint schemes -- Model Power had a series of military themed freight cars as well. To me they looked OK as plastic castings, not so different than the Roundhouse/MDC models, and while I suspect the M.P. wheels and perhaps even the trucks are junk and likely the cars are underweight for their length, remedies and solutions are available well short of just thowing them away. I assume the OP liked the look of the cars.
Dave Nelson
wjstix The OP hasn't (unless I missed it?) said what time period he's modelling. For heavyweight cars from the 1910s-on, Athearn's heavyweight RPO, Baggage, and Coach cars are all full size but still will go around 18" radius curves, as will the shortened (72' instead of 80') Sleeper, Diner, and Observation. Athearn streamlined cars will all do 18" too. Might not look great doing it, but 34' wood open-platform cars on say a 1950s layout won't look right either.
It also depends on prototype as well. I am not sure when the Sierra Railway ended passenger service, but their branch that had all of the switchbacks required shorter wheel base passenger service - if you are "proto-lancing" or freelancing, I am sure you can make an argument for keeping those in service - although that would probably require you to modernize them in some way or shape.
It definitely comes down to a question of what, to you, a model railroad is of course. At some point a thread about what sort of exceptions you make to prototypicality is okay for us prototype modelers, at what point you go from prototype modeling to proto-lancing, and how you justify it to yourself, but this isn't the place for that.
snjroy Apart from the wheels and couplers, there is not a huge difference between the old Roundhouse Harrimans and these models of Model Power. By the way, Model Power sold many types of passenger cars from various manufacturers - I would not make any blanket statements about what they've sold in the past. Throwing them in the garbage bin? An entire set?? I would donate them to a local club first. Some folks would be more than happy to get such a set for free. With very little work, they can become very smooth running pieces. I bought some MP pieces in the past, originally manufactured by Frateshi. I changed the wheels and mounted the couplers on the body. They run very well and are quite unique for my prototype. Simon
If you are modeling the 1920s and beyond, the Walthers Trainline/Rivarossi Heavyweight 60-footers are excellent choices. They are pretty accurate models of some CNW Commuter cars and are probably the only realistic short heavyweights available
Around 1908-1910, the US government put in a requirement that all manned Railway Post Office cars had to be all steel, for the safety of the RPO clerks. This put the railroads in a difficult situation, as passengers might well ask if the RPO car at the head of the train was all steel because it was safer, why am I as a paying customer having to ride in a wood car? Railroads began converting trains to all-steel cars as quickly as they could.
Now yes, some wood cars lasted well into the 20th century, but I think in answering a question it's usually better to not confuse things with the odd and the rarities, and to go with what the most common.
Great Northern Fan 54If you are modeling the 1920s and beyond, the Walthers Trainline/Rivarossi Heavyweight 60-footers are excellent choices. They are pretty accurate models of some CNW Commuter cars and are probably the only realistic short heavyweights available
Those are good looking passenger cars. The only one I have ever seen in undecorated is the coach.
I bought a couple of the 60' undec cars (Combine and RPO) back when they first came out years back, not sure how easy it would be to find them now.
Note that they have body mounted couplers, so despite being short cars might not be the best choice for 18"R curves.
wjstixI bought a couple of the 60' undec cars (Combine and RPO) back when they first came out years back, not sure how easy it would be to find them now.
When those came out, I was all about 80+ foot long passenger cars for my final layout. I did not buy them.
Now, I have realized that shorter cars are a better choice for me, and I might have missed out on a good option.
I do have an eight car set of Athearn undecorated heavyweights, so I am not in a bad situation.
A friend asked me to build a couple of shorty passenger cars, for his tiny HO scale railroad. He provided the cars (an Athearn coach and a baggage car) and all I had to do was shorten them. Here's the shortened coach...
...and the baggage car, also shortened as a baggage/mail car...
...and the painted versions, on his layout...
Shortening those two cars was more difficult than scratchbuilding an 80' baggage car, for my own layout.
Wayne