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Atlas (Roco) FP7 Worm stripped. Options?

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  • Member since
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  • From: AU
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Atlas (Roco) FP7 Worm stripped. Options?
Posted by xdford on Thursday, August 17, 2023 6:51 AM

Hi All,

I have a pair of Yellow Box FP7's that for some reason have stripped the worm on each of their lead trucks. I have made a good one out of both using the rear truck of one to the front.  

Given the parts are hard to get, doing a search I found an Athearn worm set that going on the idea that the gear and the bearing look about the same proportion, I am tempted to check out. 

Has anyone else had this experience and if so what was the best replacement source for the factory part please if indeed they are still available?

TIA from Australia

Trevor

 

 

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Posted by NVSRR on Thursday, August 17, 2023 7:51 AM

Worm gears are a common generic design enough that many will fit.  Just need the shaft diameter and gear length.     .    Other like kato gears might be compatable  Your biggest issue is going to be that shaft diameter.   

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, August 17, 2023 8:06 AM

I think the OP is talking about the worm, not the worm gear.

The worm is the spiral-threaded cylinder; the worm gear is the disk with the gear teeth that looks for the most part like a regular gear.

All the OP needs to do is measure the axial pitch (basically the distance between spiral teeth), diameter and length of the worm and find one that matches.

There's a lot more to matching worms to worm gears than just that, but for our extremely low power transfer requirements, that's probably enough.

There are standard sizes for worms that match to standard worm gears, but good luck finding out which standards apply to a particular model. Thats not generally published information by the vendors in our hobby.

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Posted by tankertoad135 on Thursday, August 17, 2023 11:20 AM

NWSL, has a great supply of the various worm style gears, but one needs to take careful measurements of the worm to be replaced to obtain a proper match to the present worm being replaced.Cowboy

 

Don; Prez, CEO or whatever of the Wishram, Oregon and Western RRGeeked

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Thursday, August 17, 2023 1:09 PM

Trevor,

The athearn BB worm is a different diameter than the roco/atlas. I doubt it would even engage the top gear in the truck properly.

Can you tell me if you see two screw holes or one in bottom of the frame in the fuel tank?

I ask because Atlas ran two different models of the FP7 over the years and the drivetrains are totally different. The only part interchageable between the two are the truck side frame assembly.

Jim

  • Member since
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  • From: Northfield Center TWP, OH
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Posted by dti406 on Friday, August 18, 2023 12:15 PM

I did not know that there were two different worm gears for the FP7, I was of the belief that all the ROCO gears were the same in the FP7 and other ROCO built engines like the GP40, GP38, SD24, SD35 and FP7 that Atlas had built along with the Model Power FAs and Sharks, and the AHM C424. The worm from any of those would be interchangeable with the FP7. You can usually find these old engines at flea markets and E-bay at reasonable prices as a parts factory.

Also Con-Cor re-issued the GP's and SD's but I don't know if the worms were the same, but they did change out the motors, but the frames were crap and broke apart so these can be found cheaply as another parts source.

Rick Jesionowski

 

 

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Monday, August 21, 2023 12:11 AM

Here's a pair of originals for the first version: https://www.ebay.com/itm/374225867916

These fit the ones with a silver motor and large steel flywheel.

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Monday, August 21, 2023 9:58 AM

 

I currently own 5 FP 7s.
 
3 are the original version:
 

and 2 are the revised version:

https://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionAtlas/Assembly%20Explosion%20Atlas%20FP7.jpg

The gearing is different as the original has 10T worm gear with 5 gears in the box. vs 14T with 7 gears. The frames, trucks, motors, driveshafts are all different.

Even the body was revised as shown on the top of the page as they offered 4 different body options such as single/dual headlamp and W/WO dynamic brakes.

 

Jim

  • Member since
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  • From: AU
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Posted by xdford on Thursday, August 24, 2023 5:49 AM

HI All,

 

I know it is belated but thank you everybody for your inputs.  I tried several times in the last week but there seemed to be a problem with posting over the week. 

Seems that the worm is not meant to be a separate part but rather the truck?  I should be able to measure it up and perhaps turn one from a plastic screw, once I have the size right.  I have not checked the truck yet to see if anything else is stripped within so there was not much point in doing anything ordering parts... if they are around! 

As it turns out, thanks to Soo Line Fan, I have found I have the second type with the open motors  except I replaced mine with Mashimas,

Thanks again everybody

Regards from Australia

Trevor

editor/publisher Railway Modeller Australia

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Thursday, August 24, 2023 3:09 PM

Trevor,

Here is another document showing the internal parts of the truck.

https://download.atlasrr.com/pdf/HO%20FP-7%20TRUCK%20ASS.%20AUSTRIA.pdf

The worm for this second version is smaller and should be colored black. It does not seem to be as commonly available as the larger red one used in the first version.

Also, definitly check the gears. You may be better off getting a couple of complete gear boxes.

 

Jim

  • Member since
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  • From: AU
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Posted by xdford on Thursday, August 24, 2023 6:15 PM

Thanks for that Jim - It is definitely a black coloured worm and the motor was as described for the second series of these units.  Just interested as to why the front worm on both units stripped about the same time and I wonder if it is/was a common problem with these units?

And again thankyou to everyone who has tried to help!

Cheers from Australia

Trevor

Editor Publisher Railway Modeller Australia

(PM me for the link to the free magazine)  

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Thursday, August 24, 2023 6:34 PM

Were the gears kept lubricated?  I've found that nylon gears can actually grind each other down if they're running without any good grease or oil.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, August 25, 2023 3:22 PM

Trevor,

 You are welcome.

As far as seeing this personally, I have 2 FP7s and 4 Con Cor GPs with this drive. None have failed. I have heard of the motor failing but not the gears/worm.

One thing I noticed, is when new, the gear boxes were fairly tight. After a while, I could hear a momentary squeak from the lead truck when the unit began to move.

After adding some plastic compatible grease (Superlube), to the gearboxes the noise immediately ceased and starting voltage was lowered.

The fact that both of your units failed in the same manner, suggests lubrication was likely the fault. Oil alone is not sufficient, as the boxes are not sealed and oil will eventually migrate out.

 

Jim

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