Do you solder your turnouts to the mains or use joiners? If you have soldered swiches, is their any way to remove the old solder so the turnouts can be moved and reused elsewhere?
Many/most of us do not solder our turnouts into place. They often require adjustments or replacement, and it's hard to do that when they've been soldered. Instead, we use joiners, or portions of a joiner, to slide across the gap between oncoming rails at the various exits. If those joiners aren't great at electrical transmission, and they generally are not, then we might solder feeders to the nether side of the rail stock rails and frog rails.
There is such a thing as a 'solder wick' that you can use to wick up solder once it has been heated and liquified.
I use joiners and do not solder them to turnouts. Also, I do not fasten TOs down either they just float, except, for large curved TOs on the main. I found large steamers will torque them out of gauge at speed and derail, so I caulk them securely to the benchwork. I have about 40 TOs and have not had electrical problems not soldering the joiners to TOs except for one. I eventually just added a feeder to it and the troublemaker never bothered me again.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I do solder my turnouts.
A while back I started a new layout, and I took apart and saved much of the track from layout #1. I removed the solder from the turnouts by very carefully heating the soldered joiners and disconnecting the tracks, and then removing any leftover solder by very carefully heating it and wiping it.
I did ruin several turnouts.
My layout is N scale, so I used a very fine point soldering tip.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
DonRicardo Do you solder your turnouts to the mains or use joiners? If you have soldered swiches, is their any way to remove the old solder so the turnouts can be moved and reused elsewhere?
The observations above are sound. Keep them at the forefront when building and tearing down. That being said, there are basically five ways to remove solder: wick it off, suck it off, shake it off, brush it off, and file it off. All depends on what it's on (or rather, what it's near), how thick it is, and the skill of the remover. In the case of turnouts, you're dealing with the possibility - as always - of melting ties. That is the major bugbear.
I used to do a lot of soldering in an electronics plant where we hand-built proprietary test equipment. Sometimes I had to "clean up" the soldering work of other folks that was rather ham-fisted. Here are the techniques, without preference for order as "your mileage will vary".
The greatest friend was the solder sucker. There are two types: the relatively "high tech" plunger type where the press of a button released a spring-loaded plunger that created the required suction. Too cumbersome for me, especially in tight spots. Better was the bulb sucker, a rubber bulb like one we used to see for home healthcare use (cleaning out kids' snotty noses? ). But, for obvious reasons, one with a high-temp nylon or teflon tip. Like those old brands of "nostalgia" chewing gum, still available on the internet. Mine was made by American Beauty as I recall. My absolute go-to for larger gobs.
Solder wicking ribbon. Available in lots of places, sometimes in a variety of sizes. Generally in a small but handy disc-like platic dispenser. A weave of very fine guage copper wire that you can butt up or lay against the stuff to be removed. Apply heat to the joint or surface and it soaks up the great majority of what you want to get rid of, leaving a tinned surface behind. To aid in the process I often apply a tiny amount of paste flux to the ribbon to facilitate the absorbtion.
The Shake It But Don't Break It method. Hold the item to be cleaned in your fingers, heat it up, bang the heel of your hand against the top of your workbench. Not always possible with any number of scenarios; turnouts, to name just one. REQUIRES EYE PROTECTION, will incur the possible dismay of other modellers, the irritation of spouses, threats of dramatic action by OSHA representatives, their supporters, and other government entities as flingling molten metal is always a bad idea. Probably illegal in California. Requires consideration of where the spatter will land. Best done in secret. Mentioned here only as an anecdotal reference.
Give it the brush off. Using a small stiff bush with metal or (better) fiber bristles. Basically the finging method under much greater control as the bristles do the work, not raw inertia.
Filing it off. Which becomes burnishing if you want it to look really pretty.
All of these techniques are subject to increased effectiveness through practice. Other considerations may apply based the particular situation. Have the turnouts already been removed from the roadbed, are there joiners involved, etc.?
Attuvian1 John
I have undone solder joints on turnouts for others. What I did was snip the flex about a cm away from where it butts up against the TO rail. I then stuck the little bit of flex in a vice and a quick touch of the iron while pulling gently did the job.
When dismantling a layout that has had all the track soldered, you can spend a lot of time trying to unsolder the track or just snip the rails on either side of the joiner. Sure you lose a cm of flex, but it takes a lot of work and frustration out of the tear-down process.
Hello All,
It's difficult to only solder any track without rail joiners.
The solder holds the rail joiners in place and eliminates loosening of the rail joiners due to movement at the joint.
I do not solder the plastic rail joiners...!!!
To remove solder my first choice is a solder sucker and then desoldering wick- -no matter the components.
When working with printed circuit boards a solder sucker helps to clear the holes the component(s)/wire(s) go into on the PCB.
Desoldering wick is great for those places the "snoot" of the solder sucker can't reach.
I also use flux when desoldering components.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I soldered evrything, including switches. I have had to move a couple, and unsoldering was no problem.
Mike.
My You Tube
Thanks for the replies, I have a few old turnouts that are still good, and plan on reusing them on this layout. That will save a few bucks!
TIPS FROM THE LION"S TAIL:
1) ADJUST your eyeglasses before you pick up the soldering iron.
2) LOOK AT the soldering iron BEFORE you pick it up.
3) BE CAREFUL: You do not want to get solder on your nice soft fur.
RAIL joiners hold the tdracks in mechanical alignment The Solder assure that they stay as you put them and provides a proper electrical path. You will still have to drop feeders every four feet or sew.
UNSOLDER A TURNOUT
On the turnout side of the of the joint place the tip of the iron on the end of the joiner. When the solder melts, gently pust the joiner onto the adjoining rail. You can reverse this process when you want to put the switchj back again.
OR IF you are just taking the lay out apart, cut the rail joiner between the rails, then you can simply flick the remains off of the rail with a hot soldering iron.
Guess what we are having for supper tonight!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I usually use joiners and solder them. I have had some loss of conductivity at unsoldered joints after applying ballast glue and had to go back and apply solder to eliminate dead spots.
Modeling the B&M Railroad during the transition era in Lowell, MA
I always solder turnouts in-place, and all track, too, except where there are large bridges that occasionally need to be removed for maintenance or cleaning the nearby scenery features...Heres a train on a bridge...
...and no train and no bridge, either...
If you need to remove a turnout, or locate it elsewhere, it's easy to unsolder the rail joiners, then, while the solder is still melted, use the tip of your X-Acto knife to push the joiner away from the joint.
Wayne
Patience and practice is the key so if you don't have much soldering experience, set up some practice pieces at your workbench. My old N-scale layout was mostly code 70 with Shinohara turnouts, nearly every thing was soldered with no rail joiners. When it was initially built I was careful using a metal guide, heat sinks, and non-acid flux while soldering the turnouts. The result was years of near flawless operations and no cold joints. But sadly that came to an end when we moved out of state.
Much of the layout was shelf style created in four foot sections, these were easily moved and packed for the eventual new layout. However it wasn't practical to move two of the larger islands so everything was pulled off. I cut the rails an inch or so from the turnouts so I could easily sit at the workbench to unsolder and clean the turnouts. That plan was postponed for many years and the switches sat in boxes along with everything else. But now, finally with my cateracts gone I've pulled out my N-scale and started. So once again, a quality fine tip soldering iron, heat sinks, a solder sucker, and patience. So far I've done 35 of the old turnouts which is more that enough for my new layout plans.
I solder feeder wires to the outside of the rails on every piece of flextrack and turnout. No need to solder rail joiners.
Rich
Alton Junction
Been using this from Radio Shack for years. It works great and they still sell it online.
Jim
I use joiners on all track. I solder all joints, including the joiners. I mkae sure that each leg of a turnout has a soldered connection to a feeder somewhere.
I've removed and replaced track...a lot over the years...to make slight adjustments. Unsolderering previously soldered track has become pretty routine.
- Douglas
Good 'soldering stations' often include a hot-air head (for solder reflow work) and a vacuum 'sucker' for easy unsoldering. A resistance-soldering rig might simplify getting solder in a joiner to liquidus for removal with minimal tie damage... but be prepared to do the old wet-towel rapid quench trick after you desolder...
I was taught to use joiners without solder, but carefully file and adjust the joint so the joiner holds the two rails tight and aligned. Then use feeders to the various parts of the switch you want energized. I think that is still the 'best practice' if you're carefully bedding both the track and the switch as has been described over the years here.
One of the 'issues' with soldered joiners is that, if you do them right with no-clean flux and eutectic, there will be a thin film of solder adherent to both the rail and the joiner inside the gap where suckers don't suck well and braid doesn't reach. So if you heat the joint and suck/braid it, you still have to work fast and hot to move the joiner to the chosen 'side' and then heat it up again to remove it or re-slide it. That is not a showstopping pain in the tuchis but it does have to be remembered as you wield the iron...
Count me for not soldering turnouts to track. I def use rail joiners. Love Atlas ones since they're less "tight" than ME. ME being smaller also fly off faster. Pls don't ask how I know.
When I added a partial second level to my layout, I used gelled contact cement to put down the Atlas cork roadbed and the Central Valley tie-strip atop it.I then decided to add the code 83 rail, also using the gelled contact cement, but before doing that, decided to soldered together 6 or 7 3' lengths of rail, but when I began, realised that I had only 2 or 3 joiners on-hand.With a hobby shop less than 10 minutes away, I went to get some more, but found that all that was available were code 55 joiners, which wouldn't fit on code 83 rail. I hesitated to buy the undersize joiners, but with no other choice, I figured that I could come-up with something to make them useable.
By the time I got home, I already had the solution:....a cut-off disc in my motor tool, to remove the majority of the metal from the base of the rail, so that the tiny joiners could be installed on the slimmed-down ends of each piece of rail, then soldered in-place.I soldered them into 15' to 21' lengths, then cemented them to the CV tie strips, which were already in place.It not only worked well, but it also looked better, too, as the joiners were almost invisible.If I add more track (or start a new layout), I'll definitely use those tiny joiners, as they do the job and don't look out-of-scale....mainly because they're very difficult to spot.I've also built a couple of CV turnout kits, which work well, although I do prefer the ready-to-use ones.
There si an old material called solder wick. it is braided copper wire specifically for solder removal. and remove it does. it does wick up the solder relly quick. leaving a thing tinned surface for reuse. I use the solder sucker things as well. All the turnouts I have that are hidden are not soldered. All the visible turnouts are hand laid i dont think they qualify for this discussion. different animal entirely. I have always read that a turnout is not soldered, left to float in place and has feeders at the points end of the closure rail on the stock rails.
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
I usually solder the joints on turnouts. I use code 70, hand laid turnouts. Once they're ballasted in, there's no trying to move or save them anyway, so I solder for conductivity.
I usually solder the joints on turnouts. I use code 70, hand laid turnouts. Once they're ballasted in, there's no trying to move or save them anyway, so I solder for conductivity. Dan
Nearly all my turnout joiners are soldered as well. I have a few unsoldered joints on some random places for "expansion" but any time I check them (over the past 26 years) the gap, about .020, has remained the same or close to it.
When I've decided to remove a turnout I clip or use a cutoff wheel to cut the rail just downstream of the soldered joiner, remove the turnout and then unsolder the joint and clean up the remaining rail.
Chances are if I'm removing a turnout for whatever reason it's going in the scrap bin anyway.
I recently rearranged this yard and the old turnouts were scrapped.
West end yard-a by Edmund, on Flickr
West end yard-painted by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
I don't solder my turnouts either. (I don't solder anything on my layout.) I'm no good at soldering anyway. My layout area is such that I need the track to be able to move a little as it is in an unheated garage. Have never had a major problem with track kinking with temparture change. Being in a dry climate helps too.
Power feeds are mostly custom made terminal joiners (bought via eBay) with specific wire colors for tracing purposes. There are a few commercial ones.
My oldest son repairs his own guitars (has a band), and had an extra one of these so now I have one too!
doctorwayneI went to get some more, but found that all that was available were code 55 joiners, which wouldn't fit on code 83 rail. I hesitated to buy the undersize joiners, but with no other choice, I figured that I could come-up with something to make them useable.
For Atlas code 83 track, I use their N scale code 80 joiners. They are a lot smaller than their HO 83/100 joiners. File the end of the rails to chamfer the corners to be able to slide them on, then the code 80 joiners fit snuggly.
Many HO scale joiners are too big and clunky looking. Probably made for sectional track at its root, where no soldering is involved.
both. Use the joiners and then solder the spaces between the rails
I solder and run feeder wires to every other joint. Using 3 foot HO flex track creates a 6 foot section of track wired by the feeders. No section of track relies on the rail joiners to carry the current.
You can solder and run feeders to every joint if you like but to me that is like wearing a belt and suspenders.
WilmJunc I usually use joiners and solder them. I have had some loss of conductivity at unsoldered joints after applying ballast glue and had to go back and apply solder to eliminate dead spots.