filled and MT hoppers, unlike most other rolling stock, would typically need to be repositioned after a op-session. MT hoppers wouldn't be picked up from a mine
wondering if on some layouts, the fake hopper loads are simply moved from the filled hoppers, possibly sitting in staging and put into the MT hoppers sitting at a mine?
of course i'm assuming there's an equal number of each
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I find it easiest to just run the hoppers back out close to the mine brance and then move the cars with the 0-5-0 switcher. Eight fulls and eight empties.
That works if you don't depend on individual car numbers. I do that with logging cars to save my plastic gear challenged Bachmann Shay from the long run up and down the mountain.
Charlie - Northern Colorado
This is why you should Subway Trains. Always people on them.
Always people getting on and off.
Besides, Prople are tasty!
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
The most efficient way to deal with open top loads is to pair the origin and destination industries so that the loads can be shoved into power plant and pulled out of a coal mine located on the opposite end of a track that passes through a backdrop or mountain. The empties are delivered to the mine and pulled from the power plant.
The industries don't have to be directly opposite each other as long as you can arrange a hidden track between them.
Responder mvlandsw is right-on with what has been commonly called "loads-in, emptys out". On my layout the collery and the coal dock are connected through their back doors with hidden dual tracks - one for loads and the other for emptys.
At the collery, the loco pulls out a string of filled hoppers/gondolas from the loads track and takes them all the way across the line to the rail-to-sail coal dock where they are pushed off onto the hidden loads track. Then the loco backs up and switches over to the emptys track, pulls out a string of (always) empty cars and takes them back across the line to return them to the collery's "waiting to be loaded" track.
The beauty of this method is that, loaded cars are always going to the destination, and empty are always returning to the source - and all this happens without manual load changes or re-staging. On separate tracks, I use this same concept for general freight cars where the generic drop-off track is the other end of the generic pick-up track.
I seem to recall that this concept is generally attributed to John Armstrong (the Dean of Designing Layouts for Operation).
Jim
I occasionally run coal trains that have come from "somewhere", and run to "elsewhere" (both of which are simply staging tracks). I might cut-off the locomotives to turn them around, then run the same train back to it's original starting point, then empty the loads (usually Black Beauty blasting medium, and/or coke breeze (fine granules from coke making), then return the empty hoppers to their assigned boxes.
Here's one such train...
I also run occasional limestone trains, which are, like many prototypes, only half-loaded, due to their weight...
Like the coal-only trains, they come from a staging track, and end-up on another staging track...no modelled deliveries to any on-layout businesses.
I do run mixed trains that include several loaded coal hoppers, which are delivered to various on-layout coal dealers...
This is the largest of my on-line coal dealerships...
Here are several photos of one of those long-ish coal trains that come from somewhere and end-up somewhere else...
...and, of course, those mixed trains also include coal for keeping the trains running...
Wayne
Empties arrive at the mine. Full hoppers depart the mine. At some point before the train departs the mine, the modeler has to replace the removable loads he removed from the train in staging before it went to the mine. The timing of the removing/replacing is up to the modeler.
Am I not understanding the question?
If you have the origination and destination for the cars on the layout, then you can do the loads-in/empties-out thingy with the two industries separated by enough concealed track to hide the longest cut of cars you want hidden....which is pretty cool.
Modelers build their own removable loads. Use the high density styrofoam cut into the proper shape, then cover it with a layer of coal. Chooch and Walthers are two companies that sell removable loads designed for certain brands and models of hoppers.
- Douglas
gregc wondering if on some layouts, the fake hopper loads are simply moved from the filled hoppers, possibly sitting in staging and put into the MT hoppers sitting at a mine? of course i'm assuming there's an equal number of each
There actually isn't any need to assume equal numbers in this case - extra removeable loads go to a box or storage shelf.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
hardcoalcase Responder mvlandsw is right-on with what has been commonly called "loads-in, emptys out". one for loads and the other for emptys. The beauty of this method is that, loaded cars are always going to the destination, and empty are always returning to the source - and all this happens without manual load changes or re-staging. I seem to recall that this concept is generally attributed to John Armstrong (the Dean of Designing Layouts for Operation). Jim
Responder mvlandsw is right-on with what has been commonly called "loads-in, emptys out". one for loads and the other for emptys.
The beauty of this method is that, loaded cars are always going to the destination, and empty are always returning to the source - and all this happens without manual load changes or re-staging.
Hoppers of coal get pulled from the mine go around the layout, past the yard and get delivered into the power plant and emptys leaving the power plant go around the layout, past the yard and get delivered back at the mine. Some times the two trains will pass on the double track main.
In the 1978 book of John Armstrong on Creative Layout Design, page 111, lower right hand corner, it shows the Conemaul Power Co. and the Oliphant #11 coal mine.
Wayne,
I love that green three story coal building. Could you possibly share some more photos / info? Was it a kit? Freelance? Is it based on a prototype?
Thanks in advance!
- Bill Rutherford Lancaster, NH
Central Vermont Railroad
I find this really interesting and it's even possible I could implement this.
If I'm reading this scenario correctly, the purpose of the hidden tracks between the back of the power plant and the back of the coal mine is simply to avoid showing a train of coal cars traveling in the wrong direction on the visible layout = loaded cars going back to the mine and empties going toward the plant. But then don't you need to have some locomotive pulling or pushing them through a short or long tunnel and appearing magically at the end of a spur masked by a billboard or a grove of trees or a structure? And that isn't weird? I must be missing a piece of this. How do you move the empties back to the plant and the fullies back to the mine?
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Double reply, sorry
I have removeable open top loads so at the end of a session, all the emptied open top cars get their loads removed (coal, iron ore, aggregates, scrap, pig iron, machinery, lumber, manure, steel plate, etc.) and then any loads billed at for the next session get loads applied.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
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crossthedog I find this really interesting and it's even possible I could implement this. If I'm reading this scenario correctly, the purpose of the hidden tracks between the back of the power plant and the back of the coal mine is simply to avoid showing a train of coal cars traveling in the wrong direction on the visible layout = loaded cars going back to the mine and empties going toward the plant. Correct, but there is also a big convenience factor of not having to manually add or remove the car loads, or re-stage the loaded and empty cars back to their starting position. But then don't you need to have some locomotive pulling or pushing them through a short or long tunnel... Sometimes there is a local switcher to handle the chores, but otherwise the road loco moves around to the rear of the train to push the (i.e) loaded cars into the (i.e) power plant; then pulls out the (i.e.) emptys. Diesels don't need to be turned, but steam locos will generally need a reversing track to be facing the correct way for the trip back. But if turning can't be done, the loco could simply lead the cars through the hidden tracks and emerge as the designated loco pulling the "next train" of (i.e.) loads, ready to depart for the power plant. and appearing magically at the end of a spur masked by a billboard or a grove of trees or a structure? And that isn't weird? Unless you have a train room the size of a gymnasium, you will be making all sorts of "slight-of-hand" techniques to create the appearance of an operating railroad in a limited space. We routinely have track curves that are far too small and distances between towns that are far too short. Its all part of the art of model railroading! -Matt
If I'm reading this scenario correctly, the purpose of the hidden tracks between the back of the power plant and the back of the coal mine is simply to avoid showing a train of coal cars traveling in the wrong direction on the visible layout = loaded cars going back to the mine and empties going toward the plant.
Correct, but there is also a big convenience factor of not having to manually add or remove the car loads, or re-stage the loaded and empty cars back to their starting position.
But then don't you need to have some locomotive pulling or pushing them through a short or long tunnel...
Sometimes there is a local switcher to handle the chores, but otherwise the road loco moves around to the rear of the train to push the (i.e) loaded cars into the (i.e) power plant; then pulls out the (i.e.) emptys. Diesels don't need to be turned, but steam locos will generally need a reversing track to be facing the correct way for the trip back. But if turning can't be done, the loco could simply lead the cars through the hidden tracks and emerge as the designated loco pulling the "next train" of (i.e.) loads, ready to depart for the power plant.
and appearing magically at the end of a spur masked by a billboard or a grove of trees or a structure? And that isn't weird?
Unless you have a train room the size of a gymnasium, you will be making all sorts of "slight-of-hand" techniques to create the appearance of an operating railroad in a limited space. We routinely have track curves that are far too small and distances between towns that are far too short. Its all part of the art of model railroading!
B Rutherford Wayne, I love that green three story coal building. Could you possibly share some more photos / info? Was it a kit? Freelance? Is it based on a prototype? Thanks in advance!