Speaker upgrade worthwhile in older dcc loco?

[Rumpelhardt]

I have an old BLI Paragon2 J1e Hudsdon. It looks and runs great but the sound is quite lackluster in comparison to newer engines. It has 2, 28mm speakers with no baffles. Would adding baffles or even replacing 1 of the speakers with 1 of the high bass speakers like those from Soundtraxx or TCS and maybe a baffle on the other help at all or is it not worth the effort with this decoder? 

[gmpullman]

Hello,

I have been routinely going through some of my older locomotives and evaluating them on the basis of sound and running qualities and in the case of most of the Broadway Limited engines I've been stripping out the older QSI decoders and in some cases the Paragon 2 and 3 decoders.

Over the years I've tried speakers of all descriptions, i phone, high bass, mini-cube etc. Recently I discovered speakers offered by a fellow doing business as Scale Sound Systems and his designs provide a sound range that is head-and-shoulders above any factory speaker and better than any aftermarket speaker I've had any experience with.

The obstacle with the BLI speaker is that their design has them sandwiched under a metal plate that the decoder mounts on. I have fitted 28mm hi-bass speakers in there but in those cases I also replaced the decoder with an ESU or Soundtraxx hard wired decoder that allowed repositioning of the "guts" to fit a larger enclosure in there. 

BLI_PRR_QSI-tender-2 by Edmund, on Flickr

This L1 has a fairly small tender but I was able to arrange things to fit a new speaker and decoder in there. While I'm at it I rip out the smoke unit and replace it with added weight, or in a few cases I placed a speaker in the smokebox but this is a lot of extra work with not too much improvement in sound quality.

PRR_L1-BLI-guts by Edmund, on Flickr

PRR_L1-DCC by Edmund, on Flickr

I've even replaced the tinny-sounding speakers in some of my GG1s:

PRR_GG1-4903 old guts by Edmund, on Flickr

 

As far as a "baffle" goes, the tender floor does act as a baffle to some degree. Of course the shell is not air tight but I don't believe "sealing" it would make much difference. As long as the sound waves from the front of the speaker doesn't cancel the sound waves from the back the baffle is doing its job.

Smaller speakers do benefit from using an air-tight enclosure and I've installed many of the versatile ESU cube speakers that come with a "customizable" enclosure, usually in narrow "hood" - type diesels where space is tight, and these sound a little better than the stock BLI speakers but, again, since discovering the Scale Sound speakers I'm going to make every effort to utilize one of those.

To get back to your original question, yes, replacing the low-profile (AKA cheap) BLI speakers with the hi-bass replacements would certainly improve the sound. You would have to make adjustments to the mounting of the decoder/PC board and probably remove the stamped steel weight and substitute stick-on weights somewhere else in the tender.

Good Luck, Ed

[IC_Tom]

gmpullman

Over the years I've tried speakers of all descriptions, i phone, high bass, mini-cube etc. Recently I discovered speakers offered by a fellow doing business as Scale Sound Systems and his designs provide a sound range that is head-and-shoulders above any factory speaker and better than any aftermarket speaker I've had any experience with.

 

I agree with the above quote entirely.

I'm still inexperienced around here, but after getting back into the hobby a couple of years ago, have collected a number of new and old DCC locomotives.  This includes those made by Walthers, Rapido, Athearn, Intermountain, Bachmann, and Broadway Limited (QSI, Paragon 4).

I installed a couple of Scale Sound Systems speakers into a pair of Intermountain GP10s that had ESU non-sound decoders.  I replaced the non-sound ESU decoders with Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 decoders.  The combination is vastly superior to any other locomotive's onboard sound that I own, including several Athearn with Tsunami 2 and dual-sugar-cube speakers.  The only thing that may come close is Paragon 4 with Rolling Thunder, but I understand that some people don't like that and it's a big departure from the onboard sound subject.

I've spent the last 15 years owning/operating an audio electronics business on the side and can assure you that JT Burke of Scale Sound Systems knows his stuff.  I can also attest to the fact that his help and assistance is as good as it gets.  He and I traded several e-mails to ensure I got the correct parts for my Intermountain GP10s - speakers, wiring, and connectors.  Even then, he was kind enough to make some corrections in my shopping cart - after I already ordered - to ensure that I got the right stuff.

After that experience, I was going to blow my budget by ordering speakers from JT for every one of my locomotives all at once, but decided that I couldn't afford the decoder replacements at the same time.  I will go back to doing this gradually.   (Even though the prices for his speakers are very reasonable.)  I know for a fact that I'm going to order his speakers right away for Rapido's E8s, whenever they finally come out.  He's already got custom speakers available for the PAs and the Amtrak E8 that are currently on the market. 

[gmpullman]

Thanks for your reply, Tom.

I've fallen for SSS speakers hook, line and voice coil. My fourth order should arrive today. I'm pretty close to a thousand dollars in the "speaker upgrade" department. Haven't tallied the decoders yet . Just tonight I was fine-tuning a few Rapido replacements I did over the weekend. Rapido uses awful-sounding i-phone speakers and the SSS speakers make a huge difference:

Rapido-F40_SSS-spkr-3 by Edmund, on Flickr

The PAs recently arrived and I was glad to see JT had already designed a perfect-fit replacement.

Rapido_PA_parts-swap by Edmund, on Flickr

Larry Puckett has a decent video showing many options of speaker choices. I've tried all of these. Some are OK, most are not.

I always try speaker arrangements using a little amp and an old MP3 player. I can play with trying series or parallel wiring and, sometimes, there's a dud that comes up. I'd rather find it before i install it in the loco. Most of the speakers from eBay or even some of the M-R suppliers are "B-grade" rejects from the computer, flat screen TV and smart phone market.

If the loco speaker can't handle Pink Floyd without clipping then it doesn't get installed in my engine!

SPKR_test by Edmund, on Flickr

I've got about two-dozen locos waiting for their turn. Next-up is a couple of Bachmann EM-1s then after that it will be a pair of Genesis SDP40-Fs 

EM1_BnO-tender-DCC2 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

Thanks for your insight, Ed

[Rumpelhardt]

Thanks all. I ordered a TCS WOW2 decoder kit with a 28mm high bass speaker and also a Scale Sound Systems  Boiler Barker to replace the smoke unit. I figured if I have to redo everything anyways I might as well do it all at once. I am astonished how fast TCS got their stuff to me. 

[IC_Tom]

gmpullman

<snip>

I always try speaker arrangements using a little amp and an old MP3 player. I can play with trying series or parallel wiring and, sometimes, there's a dud that comes up. I'd rather find it before i install it in the loco. Most of the speakers from eBay or even some of the M-R suppliers are "B-grade" rejects from the computer, flat screen TV and smart phone market.

If the loco speaker can't handle Pink Floyd without clipping then it doesn't get installed in my engine!

</snip> 

Great idea and something I will do from now on!

[tstage]

IC_Tom

and can assure you that JT Burke of Scale Sound Systems knows his stuff.  I can also attest to the fact that his help and assistance is as good as it gets.

Agreed.  JT is a sound engineer by trade and does sound recordings for a living.  He is also a MRRer and the speaker business he does on the side.

I emailed JT when I was trying to install a couple of BoilerBarkers (in parallel) in the boiler of a brass 2-6-6-2 Mallet and he was very helpful with the "thinking it through" process.  And his speakers sound TERRIFIC - especially in replicating the gutteral chuff sound coming from the exhaust.

Once I'm back home, I'll post a link to a podcast of an interview with JT.  It's very informative and you really appreciate the systematic approach he took to come up with his speaker choice and the design for his 3D printed speaker baffles.

Tom

[tstage]

I was able to locate the Crew Call podcast interview with JT on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=217QaWfVxgw

Definitely worth a watch...

Tom

[thomas81z]

wow i was thinking of replacing my front big boy rivarossi boiler speaker with a  BOILER BARKER  it should make a diffrence