Got a curious query for my Forum friends. Has anyone had problems trying to decal seemingly painted cars? The cars in question are one of ScaleTrains new gondolas and some of Accurail's composite hoppers. Anytime I've tried to put on Microscale's Micro Set it just beads up like water would on a oily surface. With the Accurail hoppers, I finally broke through with some Micro Sol but even that I let dry before I worked with the cars again.
Anybody have any ideas? I'm totally stumped.
I have never been a real big fan of Microscales setting solutions and even less of Testors. I lean to Solvaset. That being said is the finish semi gloss or flat on what you are applying them to? Decals stick best on a gloss surface.
Ya my guess would be it's flat paint, not glossy. I've built several of Accurails "data only" kits so I could letter them for my freelance railroad; I always spray them with gloss finish first.
FRRYKidAnytime I've tried to put on Microscale's Micro Set it just beads up like water would on a oily surface.
I wonder if that's the problem...perhaps a wash of the body shell with dish soap and warm water, then a rinse, followed by air drying. Any item that's been handled could have skin oils on it that might counter the effect of a decal setting solution.I sometimes use Micro Set on small or fragile decals, but always follow-up with Solvaset.I've not used Micro Sol, as Solvaset does the trick and is also more affordable.
As has been mentioned, decals are best applied on a glossy surface, and will look better if over-coated with another application of clear gloss to create an over-all uniform appearance. You can then finish-off with another application of clear coating: high gloss, medium or low gloss or dead flat, depending on the supposed time any particular car was built and it's current "age" since then.In most cases, I use a clear dead-flat overspray, followed up with appropriate weathering.For rolling stock representing newer cars (or locos), a clear semi-gloss (mixed to your own specifications) will be more suitable than dead-flat or full-gloss.
(I do understand that you're not comfortable with using an airbrush, but if you give it a try, I think you would find it to be a great asset in making your rolling stock more realistic than any just-out-of-the-box piece of equipment.)
Wayne
I have suggested this product many times before. It is hard to get, but worth the effort to own some.
Daco Products Decal Setting Strong Solution
-Photographs by Kevin Parson
There is no substitute or equivilent.
This is one of those things that really is "skill in a bottle" for the modeler.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
drgwcs I have never been a real big fan of Microscales setting solutions and even less of Testors. I lean to Solvaset. That being said is the finish semi gloss or flat on what you are applying them to? Decals stick best on a gloss surface.
The way I do my decals wouldn't work with Solvaset. I use the Micro Sol as a "float" to position my decals into place. You can't do that with the Solvaset as it "melts" the decal into place almost immediately.
The finish on the hoppers was a flat and I think the finish on the gondola was a flat as well. However, as I have said over the years, I must be doing something wrong when it comes to decalling as I am able to decal on a flat finish. (I've only had silvering twice and I have decaled over 200 pieces of rolling stock from just ACI labels and COTS panels all the way to complete lettering/relettering of the equipment. I paint and letter a vast majority of my own equipment as I both prototype model as well as protolance.)
doctorwayne (I do understand that you're not comfortable with using an airbrush, but if you give it a try, I think you would find it to be a great asset in making your rolling stock more realistic than any just-out-of-the-box piece of equipment.)
As to the making the stock more realistic, refer to the last few lines of my last post.
It's not a matter of being comfortable. It has to do with a whole list of factors:
FRRYKidPainting outside in Montana isn't possible for a good portion of the year.
Same here. The humidity is so high that I only paint with my airbrush about 4 months of the year.
FRRYKidI have gotten very good at brush painting. I have gotten many compliments on said brush painting.
I don't know why the model railroading community in general seems to consider brush painting a compromise. Other groups of modelers don't seem to feel this way at all.
FRRYKidI am not a fan of the pre-thinned paints as they don't brush paint well. Hoewver, I will work with them if that's the only way to get a certain color.
Same here. I prefer to thin my paints myself to get the exact consistency I want. I also thin my paints for brush painting.
FRRYKidCleaning paint brushes are easier than an airbrush.
Yes. I can clean up from a brush-painting session in very little time.
SeeYou190 FRRYKid Painting outside in Montana isn't possible for a good portion of the year. Same here. The humidity is so high that I only paint with my airbrush about 4 months of the year.
My paint shop is in my garage, originally a house and/or barn, roughly 180 years old. I paint there year-round, using a portable electric heater in our Canadian winters. We do get some heavy humidity in the summer, too, but I don't worry about it too much.
SeeYou190 FRRYKid I have gotten very good at brush painting. I have gotten many compliments on said brush painting. I don't know why the model railroading community in general seems to consider brush painting a compromise. Other groups of modelers don't seem to feel this way at all.
I'm also a very good brush painter, and don't at all consider brush-painting a compromise. Just before I got an airbrush, I had brush-painted over three dozen of these locomotives...
...which required both major colours to be applied first on the opposite portions shown in the photo above. The well-dried paint was then masked as required, and then brush painted as shown above. At the time this occurred, I was using the just-released Polly S paint, which required at least two coats of each colour to get good coverage, and that worked out to 8 coats per diesel.When Pollyscale paint came along, the coverage, whether by brush or airbrush, was a lot easier and required less coats, too.
SeeYou190FRRYKid I am not a fan of the pre-thinned paints as they don't brush paint well. Hoewver, I will work with them if that's the only way to get a certain color.
I totally agree with you on that one...not only do they not brush well, they also offer poor coverage when brushed. I consider pre-thinned paints a rip-off, as it's easy enough for anyone to thin water-based paints, using either tap water, or, if necessary, distilled water - I use water from the bucket on my dehumidifier.
SeeYou190 FRRYKid Cleaning paint brushes are easier than an airbrush. Yes. I can clean up from a brush-painting session in very little time. -Kevin
That depends...I can clean my airbrush for a colour change in about 10 seconds, but a full-clean after a painting session might take a minute.
I should also mention that I have a good supply of high quality brushes on-hand, as many of my scratchbuilt multi-coloured structures are brush painted.
By the way, that logo on the cab of the diesels shown above, was hand-done using a very fine brush...on all 66 locos, including one in N scale.Here's a better view...
I won't bother you again on the subject of airbrushing.
Cheers,
FRRYKidAnytime I've tried to put on Microscale's Micro Set it just beads up like water would on a oily surface. With the Accurail hoppers, I finally broke through with some Micro Sol but even that I let dry before I worked with the cars again.
I don't use Microset at all. I float the decal into place with Microsol. If it starts to settle in the wrong place I flood it with water and move it.
DSC04005 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
DSC04005
For example, all of the lettering on these cars, including the large roadname and slogan decals, was floated on with Microsol. These were done over glossy TruColor paint, but I've done the same on Accurail factory paint with good results.
Rob Spangler
FRRYKidI use the Micro Sol as a "float" to position my decals into place.
wp8thsubFor example, all of the lettering on these cars, including the large roadname and slogan decals, was floated on with Microsol.
Well, it looks like I've been doing it wrong for over 60 years...I've always floated decals into place using only water - with good qality decals (Champ, f'rinstance), the decal can be re-floated, if necessary, 50 or 60 times, although it would seldom require a re-float more than three or four times.Once the decal is in its proper place, I blot it using a clean soft cloth, then add a setting solution, either Micro Set (for fragile decals) or Solvaset for more robust decals. In many instances, those applications might be repeated several times, until there's no indication of silvering or trapped air under the decal film.
Currently, I do decal work on gloss surfaces, then overspray the applied decals with a coat of clear gloss. That's later followed-up with either a clear semi-gloss to represent a fairly new car or locomotive, or a dead flat clear overspray for an older car. All cars, new or old, do get some degree of weathering, usually suited to their age and type of service.