Hello,
I am thinking of modeling an American railroad that operates electrified freight service in the modern day. Since the United States never really embraced electrificaction as much as the rest of the world, there isn't really much variety when it comes to electric locomotives that would fit my setting. I'm currently trying to find more types so I could add some variety to my roster. I'm not opposed to using European or Asian locomotives, but I would also like to know what kind of designs would be created here in America if rail electrification was more prevalen, as I think that kitbashing or scratchbuilding would be neat. At the moment, the only two electric units I have is an ALP-44 and a GG1, and the GG1 isn't exactly modern. Any suggestions on electric locomotives or inspiration for designs of electric locomotives?
Thank You
There is some idea of a possible design lineage that tapers off in the 1970s. Had electrification continued, there's three motors I'd consider as the generational head: the E60, the E25B, and the GM6C. The E60, while it did see freight service, I'd set aside. GE and EMD would likely have relied on commonalities with diesels for body styling and components, which you do see in the E25B and the GM6C. GE was already drifting to a look that would see very at home in the Dash 9 widecab era and EMD borrowed heavily from the -30/40/50/60 series in the GM6C.
I'd wager that an GM70C wouldn't look too different from an SD70ACe, without fuel tanks and a pantograph immediately behind the cab.
There were a few electrics used by the New Haven, perhaps best remembered is the EP-5. There was also an EF-3. I believe they lasted into the Conrail timeframe. Lack of electrification outside of the Northeast Corridor probably made, and is still making, electric locomotives prohibitively expensive for service beyond already electrified lines.
I think Rapido is currently making the EP-5.
About 15 years ago, Great Britain was hit with a massive snowstorm which essentially knocked out power to a large part of their tracks, which run only electric locomotives. One passenger train was stranded, left powerless in a distant stretch of track. They were rescued by an excursion locomotive and pulled to a station. That was an old steam engine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The Milwaukee Road also ran some electrics. The Bi-Polar locomotive was first, and powered passenger trains starting around the end of WW-1. The Little Joe engine ran after WW-2. It powered mostly freight. After the Little Joe's were retired, the Milwaukee abandoned electrification of its mainlines. A few Little Joes survived in Brazil until 1999.
I think MTH made both of these models in HO scale, but they were equipped with old style DCS decoders and would generally not perform well on DCC systems.
The last, largest class, of US electric freight loco was the PRR E-44. It used solid state electronics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Railroad_class_E44
There were some small railroads, mostly owned by electric utilities, that had newer electrics, such as the aforementioned E-60. For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mesa_and_Lake_Powell_Railroad
The Iowa Traction is still around. They don't seem to have a web site, but Wiki describes it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Traction_Railway
Mike.
My You Tube
The United States (and Canada) went through several reasonably well-defined eras of electric road power design -- there are some corporate reasons for some of the design details that may or may not be relevant to you.
PRR started reasonably well with the DD1s, but came some awful croppers after that. One of the all-time miserable failures was the L5, which looked as good as it ran. What followed was a duplication of steam wheel arrangements with fairly unwieldy suspension (the O classes are bidirectional Atlantics, the P5 is a bidirectional K4, the L6 a Lollipop 2-8-2, etc.) The GG1 was an adaptation of New Haven power (and its motors carried over from a need to run on both AC and DC supply, something unnecessary on 1930s PRR) -- and its technology was functionally obsolescent by 1938, when the DD2 (and the proposed locomotives for the 1943 electrification to Pittsburgh) used larger and more advanced traction motors in the 428A series... orphaned nearly at birth. (Amusingly, the only PRR locomotive that could hold down Metroliner timings was... the GG1; there was active thought to rebuilding the locomotives for higher speed until a couple of things like loose tires put the kibosh on it... that and a prospective 4.5M pricetag. Instead we got toasters, and the rest is history.)
The EP5 was no one's idea of a practical locomotive. Carbody clearance was very tight because the things had to run through the Park Avenue tunnel with pantographs on top, and the relatively high specific power meant that lots of stuff ran hot, quite often fire-hot as it turned out. Penn Central tried them on freight (as E40s) and I doubt you will find a kind word for them. On the other hand, the "E44 precursors" for the Virginian (what became the E33s) had more lives than a cat, examples actually winding up in Conrail paint.
The GM6C was one thing to watch, but the actual 'comer' was probably the GM10B, with ABB running gear and electrical gear... perhaps not with those funky primary chevron springs, I grant you, but perhaps common componentry with the Amtrak toasters...
The other thing was the GE-rebuilt E44 in the early '80s, with all the mod cons of modern practice. It is a shame that locomotive never got to show what it could do in a consist.
Up north, we had the example of the Tumbler Ridge electrification, from which one locomotive has survived. A good cautionary tale is the history of why this electrification was given up -- it goes hand in hand with the Conrail dual-mode-lite study (both part I and part II can be downloaded, but hyou have to look carefully to find them) which even with conversion of a DC SD-40-2 had promise. Since the obvious modern equivalent is to transvert catenary power to 1500VDC and apply that to the DC link of a synthesized-drive AC locomotive... well, I have no hesitation in telling you to go to dual-mode-lite even if you intend considerable operation in the 'electrified district'.
Straight electrics in modern practice will be European... there are good designs available cheap from (for example) Siemens. You might even adopt "passenger" features like the use of long outside secondary-suspension coil springs...
[Incidentally if you are wondering why I don't address the E60, it was not exactly the answer to a question anyone actually asked. Ever hear the old adage 'that dog won't hunt'? Well, that dog certainly could and did...]
Let's not forget the Virginian and Great Northern
The first electrified its worst grades west of Roanoke with the Westinghouse system - 11000 volts, 25 cycle and powered it with the "Squareheads", jackshaft driven 1-B+B-1's in three unit drawbar connected sets in class EL-3A. Post WW2, they were augmented by the huge streamlined class EL-2B, motor-generator B-B+B-B units from GE that operated in permanently coupled 2 unit sets. They owed a lot to diesel-electric practice as the MG-sets converted AC to DC for the "AAR-B" truck mounted traction motors. Last came the roadswitchers, the class EL-C. They employed ignition rectifiers to convert AC to DC to drive traction motors mounted on the familiar three axle, three motor, Commonweath drop equalizer trucks. VGN historian H Reid, not impressed by their esthetics, likened them to "mishappen bricks." They went on to serve the New Haven (Class EF-4), Penn Central (Class E-33) and Conrail. I am not sure sure if they were ever equipped with silicone diode rectifiers - as were their descendents, the PRR E44's when they were converted from 4400 hp to 5000 hp E44a's.
Oh, yeah. Also hauling coal in the Blue Ridge was the N&W. They also went with 11000V 25 cycle and had a fleet of 1-B-B-1 (note they were rigid, not articulated frames), jackshaft driven boxcab beasts closely related to the VGN's EL-3A's
The B&M electrified Hoosac Tunnel with 3 freight geared and 2 passenger geared 11000V 25 cycle locos identical to the the NH's boxcab 1-B+B-1's. The RDG electrified its commuter service with, guess what, 11000V 25 cycle AC, while the DL&W used GE's 3000V DC system for its commuter runs.
In the Midwest, NYC subsidiary Cleveland Union Terminal went with GE's 3000V DC to power a totally new wheel arrangement, 2-C+C-2 Class P1 (they were electric Challengers - before steam 4-6+6-4's turned a wheel!) that would be used on the NH's EF3's and EP4's and the PRR's immortal GG1's (And the EP4's Brazilian twins). When CUT turned off the juice they came east to the Hudson Division, were converted to 650 V third rail (becoming Class P2), living out their lives between GCT and Croton-Harmon.
Moving out West, the GN electrified its second Cascade Tunnel electrification with more 11000V 25 cycle power. All its electric motive power were motor-generator locomotives. The first, Class W-1, was a fleet of boxcab 1-D-1's. The second were the Class Y-1 1-C+C-1 which went to the PRR as its Class FF2 for Philadelphia area helper service. They were also boxcabs, until one was wrecked and rebuilt with F unit cabs and noses provided by EMD. PRR used her for parts. Last were the gargantuan streamled B-D+D-B Class W-1's.
You might want to pick up a copy of Kalmbach's When the Steam Railroads Electrified, a classic and definitive survey of North American (including Canada, Mexico and Central America) electrification.
https://www.amazon.com/When-Steam-Railroads-Electrified-Revised/dp/0253339790
H Reid's The Virginian Railway is the history of a railroad built for one purpose, to haul coal in massive trains from the mines to Tidewater. I can remember seeing an Alco ad boasting that they had not only built the most powerful steam locomotives in the world (VGN's 2-10+10-2's), but the most powerful locomotives, period (VGN's EL-3A's)
https://www.amazon.com/Virginian-Railway-H-Reid/dp/0890245584
And they dieselized with FM Trainmasters!
https://www.arizonahobbies.com/Equipment-of-the-Virginian-Railway-Vol-2-Diesel-Electric-and-Electric-Locomotives_p_60.html
https://www.american-rails.com/virginian.html
Since it seems that, if I'm reading it correctly, you want to do a modern day freight train using overhead catenary. Why not take some of the 'modern day' electrics and put them into freight service.
Since this is 'model railroad', I would take some of the AEM-7 that Amtrak had used, or take some of the new ACS-64 and convert them to freight use and paint them in your private railroad. NJ Transit had the ALP-44 engines, which your railroad could have 'acquired' from NJT after they got rid of them. If you want to add a dual mode engine, then get the Atlas ALP-45DP engines. That would give you the best of both worlds.
Good luck in your quest!
Neal
A modern "American" electric would look like an EMD or GE engine, but without all the fans and louvers on the roof and a lot more piping/conduits on the roof between the pantographs. There would not be a fuel tank but there might be an equipment box with switching gear etc.
Also likely is that the US would buy foreign, most likely European, electric freight engines, but they would be "Americacanized" with knuckle coulers and no buffers, plus ditch lights.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Keep in mind that there are modern American electrics: the GE FLXdrive and the EMD Joule. While both are nominally "battery" locomotives, they would benefit from a high-amperage charging connection that did not require insertion, would be inherently tolerant of weather, and not require breakaway protection, etc. -- that a pan would allow traction pickup as well is a further advantage. Note that the combination of battery or hybrid consists and external pickup has potential advantages: catenary can be discontinuous, for example where overhead clearances under bridges are inadequate, and can be built out in sections rather than 'all complete before any trains can run electrically'
I suspect any electric of suitable power would have 'fans and louvers' in plenty. Anyone who has seen E44s at work will remember the vacuum-cleaner-like sound of the motor blowers; the HHP8s have plenty of cooling noise; the EP5s would not have gotten their nickname without good reason...
Try this as an idea: hybrid consist of two 4400hp locomotives, cabs out, with a FLXdrive between them, with heavy DC-link cabling between. Two pans and some switchgear on the FLXdrive roof, for charging, assist, or operation, separated so as not to heat the wire excessively.
Overmod I suspect any electric of suitable power would have 'fans and louvers' in plenty.
While I agree that the electric enginewould probably have cooling fans, they will be positioned differently.
An electric engine won't have dynamic brake grids because the dynamic brake current will be dumped back into the catenary grid and they won't need radiator fans and intakes because they won't have radiators.
Having lived and commuted on the former Pennsy back in the 70's I agree that both the E44 and the GG1's major noice was blower fan, but niether had fan or intake grid arrangements like a modern diesel.
Interesting ideas, and easy to implement. Several of the Euro HO mfr's build 21st century electric locomotives that could be adapted to North American practices. I have mentally toyed with recreating the Oregon Electric in 2020 style, offering freight and passenger service in the Willamette Valley. The OE ran its last electrics shortly after WW2. Check https://www.reynaulds.com/catalog/dept_1728.aspx for ideas.
https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/EMD_GM6C
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
Hello All,
I just returned from a three-week vacation in Europe; Germany, Netherlands, and Belgium.
All our travel was by train.
The entire system was electrified, from the "milk run" locals to the highspeed ICE trains.
I also picked up a two (2) rail DCC compatible HO Slewing Crane from Roco.
Märklin makes two (2) rail DCC compatible locomotives in their Trix line.
The hobby shop in Aachen, German, I visited- -Model Center Hünerbein- -has an entire section devoted to live catenary.
Many of the locomotives have live pantograph running in a number of scales.
A source for European equipment in North America is Micro Macro Mundo in Florida.
What you are proposing is completely attainable.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
If I was doing this, I wouldn't look to Europe at all. Euro electrics are way too undersized and underpowered for American freight. The longest possible trains in Europe are 750 meters and they're not even planning for anything longer than 1500 meters. The average in the US is 2000 meters and 2500 meters aren't uncommon at all. A 740 meter train (very common length below the maximum) comes in at 1600 metric tons. Those 2000 meter Americans (and Canadians, to be fair) are clocking in at 12700 metric tons. The heaviest Europe is planning for is 3000 metric tons.
European freight motors just aren't going to cut it in North America. Unless your railroad plans on limiting itself to 15 car trains.
NittanyLion If I was doing this, I wouldn't look to Europe at all. Euro electrics are way too undersized and underpowered for American freight. The longest possible trains in Europe are 750 meters and they're not even planning for anything longer than 1500 meters. The average in the US is 2000 meters and 2500 meters aren't uncommon at all. A 740 meter train (very common length below the maximum) comes in at 1600 metric tons. Those 2000 meter Americans (and Canadians, to be fair) are clocking in at 12700 metric tons. The heaviest Europe is planning for is 3000 metric tons. European freight motors just aren't going to cut it in North America. Unless your railroad plans on limiting itself to 15 car trains.
My source material largely ignores the Norwegian and Swedish iron ore operations because they're not typical or common to general EU operations. They're as unique in Europe as Acela is in the US. Even so, they're still smaller and lighter than comparable trains in North America.
Nobody mentioned the best known. Little joes of the south shore. Which only stopped running recently. You could work off similar idea. It was designed for long haul tonnage Ahold place to start
shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
Overmod Up north, we had the example of the Tumbler Ridge electrification, from which one locomotive has survived. A good cautionary tale is the history of why this electrification was given up -- it goes hand in hand with the Conrail dual-mode-lite study (both part I and part II can be downloaded, but hyou have to look carefully to find them) which even with conversion of a DC SD-40-2 had promise. Since the obvious modern equivalent is to transvert catenary power to 1500VDC and apply that to the DC link of a synthesized-drive AC locomotive... well, I have no hesitation in telling you to go to dual-mode-lite even if you intend considerable operation in the 'electrified district'.
The Tumbler Sub was only electrified to avoid installing fans and ventilation shafts in the two long tunnels and because of what turned out to be highly optimistic traffic projections. As it turned out there was always enough time for the air to passively clear between trains, so electrification was never needed in the first place. Electric operations ended in 2000 and the trains have been diesel powered ever since, though the line has been shut down for long periods as coal mines open and close in the typical boom-bust resource economy.
A retired BC Rail engineer who goes by the name "hoggerdoug" on Trainorders and a couple other sites has a lot of stories from up there. The tunnels turned out to have problems with infiltration of corrosive gases and groundwater (one spot was nicknamed the 'carwash'), and you can imagine how well this mixed with electricity.
There are also legends of how the utility company (BC Hydro) could tell when an electric-powered loaded train was climbing the 1% grade away from Tumbler Ridge, and would sometimes call the railroad to tell the engineer to throttle down a bit.
Overmod [Incidentally if you are wondering why I don't address the E60, it was not exactly the answer to a question anyone actually asked. Ever hear the old adage 'that dog won't hunt'? Well, that dog certainly could and did...]
Dash-8s do a pretty good impression of this, especially the safety cab and cowl units. They didn't truly fix this problem until the Dash-9s and their 'rollerblade' trucks came along.
The E60s seem to have run quite reliably for decades on several mine-mouth power plant railroads in the southwest, though I doubt they ever attained any sort of speed on those runs.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent