PruittUh-Oh! Guess I'd better get back to work!
I think it will be a long time before I threaten your view count!
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterI think it will be a long time before I threaten your view count! Cheers!! Dave
I didn't even notice how many views my thread had until you mentioned it.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I'm working on the interior lighting for the Cook Car. I don't want it to be too bright but I want people to be able to see the interior details. I will use the same constant lighting circuit that Mark R. posted several years ago and that I used in my caboose fleet, and I will include a magnetic latching reed switch so I can turn the lights off when the car is not in use but still on the tracks.
I'm contemplating modeling the wood stove with the fire box door open so I can put an orange LED inside it. That will require a crew member to be feeding a new log into the fire. You can accuse me of going overboard if you want! What the heck. The car is already powered so why not?
hon30critter I need the material to be able to conform to the clerestory roof shape. Would kleenex work?
You could try tissue paper used for model airplane wings and dope it onto the roof, or try dryer sheets. Dryer sheets will get thinner and thinner with every load in the dryer so just tell the boss to leave them in until you are happy. Both the model airplane tissue and dryer sheets are strong and will not dissolve when wet whereas Kleenex will not be as durable.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMANYou could try tissue paper used for model airplane wings and dope it onto the roof, or try dryer sheets. Dryer sheets will get thinner and thinner with every load in the dryer so just tell the boss to leave them in until you are happy.
Hi Brent,
Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll try the dryer sheets. The price is right.
I just received an older Roundhouse CP three window (per side) caboose which will work nicely with the plow train. It is missing the trucks and one of the marker lights, but the lights that came with the kit can't be lit so I will replace them anyhow. I will have to redo the hand rails on each end and I might just take a stab at making ladders using doctorwayne's method.
I shouldn't be bragging, but I showed the plow and the Cook Car to a couple of friends and they were blown away by the detail.
I have the power pick up trucks, lights and the constant lighting circuit installed in the Cook Car shell. I still have to figure out where to mount the latching magnetic reed switch.
The next step will be to apply model airplane tissue paper to the roof to mimic the canvas surface as Brent had suggested. Brent also suggested using used dryer sheets but I can get lots of modeling tissue paper from my brother who is big into R/C airplanes. Having learned my lesson the hard way about testing things first, I will experiment on another roof before applying anything to the model.
hon30critterI shouldn't be bragging...
I'll second that!
Overmod and Mark,
Thanks for the compliments, but as I have said before, I consider myself to be a bit of a hack. My modeling is not good enough to be put at the top of a list, except perhaps for having the most set-backs when building a snow plow!
I made a dumb mistake tonight. I was installing the constant lighting circuit in the Cook Car. The LEDs wouldn't light when I tested it so I took it apart and tested each of the individual components. Everything worked fine.
After fooling around with the circuit for a while, suddenly the LEDs started to glow. What I had forgotten was that it takes a few seconds for the capacitor to accumulate enough of a charge to light the LEDs. I had only been applying momentary power during the first test so the capacitor didn't have enough time to build up a charge. Dumb!
hon30critter . . . What I had forgotten was that it takes a few seconds for the capacitor to accumulate enough of a charge to light the LEDs . . . Dave
. . . What I had forgotten was that it takes a few seconds for the capacitor to accumulate enough of a charge to light the LEDs . . .
Attuvian1Aha! Tripped up by that age-old MRR nemesis: instant gratification. Our entire modelling experience proves that it doesn't exist.
Question for doctorwayne:
Hi Wayne,
Could you please post the pictures of how you made your caboose ladders? I would also like to know what the dimensions of the uprights (sides) of the ladders were.
I have tried making similar ladders for the Cook Car using 1/64" x 1/32" brass bar stock for the uprights but I can't get the rung holes in the right places. I suspect that your eyes are better than mine.
Thanks,
I have talked about methods for getting the appearance of a tar and canvas roof on the Cook Car. Ed suggested using dryer sheets (thanks again Ed), but I thought I would ask my brother Wayne who is heavily into RC planes if he had any model plane tissue that he could spare. Obviously my knowledge of RC plane construction is a bit dated because tissue paper a bit of a dinosaur in terms of what is available these days.
Wayne has sent me a piece of self adhesive fabric called Solartex which is designed specifically to match the appearance of the canvas covering used on early aircraft. It has a very fine 'weave'. I think it will be perfect for the Cook Car roof.
I will have to experiment with it because it is designed to be heated with a low temperature iron to shrink it into place. That may not work too well on the car roof because, where most airplane surfaces are convex, the ends of the clerestory roof are concave. I'm going to try it first without the heat. I'll let you know how it goes.
Heat-gun it on low while holding the strip straight out parallel to the clerestory roof, then burnishing it down from top to edge along the reverse curve?
OvermodHeat-gun it on low while holding the strip straight out parallel to the clerestory roof, then burnishing it down from top to edge along the reverse curve?
Hi Overmod,
Let me begin by saying that the first attempts to install the fabric have been disasterous! I first attempted to use canopy cement to glue the fabric strips in place. Unfortunately the bond wasn't strong enough so as soon as I started to handle the shell the edges of the fabric frayed. Obviously the edges of the fabric will have to be very well attached or the roof will get messed up very quickly just with normal handling.
For the second attempt I used contact cement. I ran into two fatal problems. First, I couldn't get a smooth even coat of cement on both surfaces. The cement dried before I could brush out any ridges or blobs. Those blobs showed up very clearly when the fabric was applied and they looked hideous.
The second problem was that I couldn't get the fabric to stick to the edges of the roof. The prototype roofs were wrapped over the edges of the roof structure and nailed in place. The Solartex fabric couldn't be bent at a sharp enough angle for it to stay in place along the edges. Even if I had been able to get the required bend, it was obvious that normal handling would destroy the edges of the roof fabric pretty quickly.
So, now I am stuck with a fairly ugly roof structure with bits of contact cement and fabric residue all over it. I'm going to put this on the back burner for a few days until I can figure out a solution. The first thing I need to do is find some contact cement remover that hopefully won't destroy the styrene. Any suggestions?
In the interim I've got a couple of new speakers to install in the pusher locomotives. That will keep me busy for a couple of days.
Dave, sorry to hear about the issues you are having with the product you are using. Back when I was building R/C planes it was tissue paper and dope and I was always really pleased with the results.
There are a lot of new products on the market now that I have never heard of, may I suggest you look for some Youtube videos that show how to install the particular product you are using?
One thing I notice when looking at old photos of these kinds of roofs on old passenger cars is there are a lot of patches. I think they used some sort of felt, canvas, and pitch (Ed would know) which required a lot of ongoing repair. Maybe a less-than-perfect look for your roof might be more perfect.
Dave,
For my BD my sweetie gave me a gift certificate to a local big box sporting goods store. I wanted to get some light shorts and she did me the favor of letting me choose. Anyway, what I found is made out of one of the more recent microfiber fabrics. Very thin, supple, and with an unusually fine weave. Have you yet hustled off to a fabric store to see what they've got on hand of this stuff? I'm thinking that, in the right color, it would be the best I've yet come across for weather curtains for old steamer cabs.
Attuvian1 John
Hi John and Brent,
I have the manufacturer's instructions for installing the Solartex fabric. They call for the use of a special low temperature heating iron to be used with a special 'covering thermometer' (which I don't have and I don't want to buy either). I tried to heat the fabric with a small hot air gun but I couldn't get the glue to become sticky at all. In any case, the fabric with the glue backing is too thick to settle in properly around the square edges.
I have a piece of a chiffon table runner which has a very fine weave and is extremely thin. Once I get the residual contact cement off of the roof I will give the chiffon a try.
What is the temperature (or range of temperatures) this special thermometer is supposed to show as "correct" for Solartex installation? And why wouldn't one of those inexpensive IR 'spot' thermometers clamped in a vise or 'third hand' give you a reading as you work?
Some of the heat guns used for solder reflow are (reasonably) accurately temperature adjustable, and would be easier to use on a complex-curved surface like a vestibule roof.
You can thin contact cements, or rubber cements like Pliobond or the old Goo, so that the layers on the 'mating' surfaces are very thin. I do not know if that will be good enough to hold the edges around corners, though.
FWIW, the specialized iron works between 100C and 150C depending on what surface the Solartex is being applied to. However, none of that matters anymore because I have decided to not use the Solartex fabric. The chiffon fabric will be much easier to work with.
I managed to get all of the contact cement residue off of the roof so it looks respectable again. I used Goo Gone to soften the glue and then I used a square tipped x-acto blade to scrape most of it away. Then I used some coarse sandpaper to remove what was left, followed by a final sanding with fine sandpaper.
I also replaced the edges that I had applied to extend the sides of the roof past the walls. I had originally used 0.020" x 0.040" styrene strip but that proved to be too fragile. It didn't help that I hadn't sanded the paint off of the edges of the roof so the bond was weak to begin with. I dutifully sanded the edges clean and used 0.030" x 0.060" strip instead. I'm just waiting for the Tamiya putty that I used to hide the joints between the roof and the strips to dry and then I can sand everything smooth.
What do you suggest that I use to glue down the chiffon fabric? I'm obviously not going to try contact cement again. Would diluted carpenter's glue work? Or canopy cement? The surface is still pretty rough from the sanding so I think that most glues will adhere to the styrene quite well.
Thanks for the input.
When all else fails, go back to the classic. You pull apart kleenex so you have very thin sheets (Costco brand is two ply and will work). Then you cut the tissue into proto size strips and paint the roof area and and use the paint as glue for the tissue, you can smooth it a bit more once applied but putting it on without wrinkeles can be tricky. One mistake people have is trying to do too much at once, sometimes you need to let an area dry before adding the next strip. Once all done you can paint the roof with a thin coat of paint (you may want to air brush it).
Hi rrebell,
I had thought of using tissue paper but I'm going to give the chiffon fabric a try first. It is as thin as tissue paper, and it is very strong (I can't tear it) so I should be able to smooth it out without it ripping.
I'm going to do some experimenting with various means of gluing it down. I need to find something that is thin enough that it won't fill in the holes in the fabric but will also not dry too fast, or can at least be rehydrated with water. I think I will try carpenter's glue first. The surface is well sanded so the glue should stick to the styrene fairly well.
I like your suggestion of only doing a bit at a time. I have a very bad habit of not letting things dry thoroughly before taking the next step.
Air brushing the colour coat is also an excellent idea. I should be able to avoid filling in the weave by using several light coats.
Thanks for your suggestions.
Here is an update on the chiffon fabric process. I had some failures at first but then I figured things out, I think.
My first attempt to cut the fabric using scissors didn't work. I found it impossible to get evenly spaced straight lines. Then I put the fabric down on my cutting mat and tried to use an exacto knife with a steel ruler. Unfortunately the blade snagged the fabric and pulled the weave apart. Second failure!
For the third attempt I knew I had to come up with some means of holding the fabric steady so I decided to try some masking tape. The tape worked perfectly! I covered the entire piece and stuck it to my cutting board, drew my cut lines on it and then used my exacto knife with a fresh blade. The exacto blade cut cleanly through the tape and the fabric so I was able to make a bunch of strips all the same size.
The next step was to separate the fabric from the masking tape. My first attempt was another disaster because the weave came apart along the edges rendering the strips useless. I needed something to glue the threads together.
That's when another light came on (that's two in one night folks!). decided to use Testors Dulcote to stick the threads together and it worked! There was an added bonus in that the Dulcote softened the adhesive on the masking tape so the fabric strips lifted off very easily and stayed together.
My final test was to glue two strips to a roughed up piece of styrene. For one I used canopy cement and for the other I used yellow carpenter's glue. They both stuck well but the carpenter's glue held much more firmly. It was also easier to work with because the strip did not move around as it was being pressed into place but the strip could still be adjusted. The Canopy cement allowed for a lot more adjustment which might be a desirable trait.
I learned one lesson. That is that everything has to be perfectly clean including my fingers. Any specs of dust that are picked up will stay stuck to the fabric which messes up the appearance.
I think one of the greatest benefits from this thread is the regular inclusion of a new issue, ideas for its resolution, the testing of those ideas, and the results of each. Being exposed to that progression really stimulates the creativity of others. The failures along the way are just as instructive as the winners. We all appreciate your willingness to share the nitty-gritty.
Attuvian John
Hi John,
Thank you for your comment. I am having a lot of fun doing the thread. The number of views amazes me! I appreciate the amount of interest and I certainly hope that I am encouraging others to give scratchbuilding a try.
I have glued on the first few chiffon fabric roofing pieces and they seem to have worked out well. I ended up using the yellow carpenter's glue because the canopy cement wouldn't hold the concave areas at the ends of the roof down when the glue was wet. I did manage to mess up my measurements for what length the pieces should have been, but I will blame that on the procurement guys. I think it just adds interest. Once the center strip is on, the not-so-straight edges hopefully won't show too much. If I was doing it again I would make the outer pieces wide enough to meet in the center.
This a close up shot of the fabric. I hope you can see the weave. The individual threads are still quite visible to the naked eye. If you double click the image you can see the weave clearly. I think they will look better once they are painted:
I have finished the installation of the fabric roof and painted it. The seams are not too pronounced although they are larger than scale. Personally, I think the roof looks pretty good. Click on the image to get a better view.
There are a few small bumps that I think were caused by dried glue debris. I will give those spots a light sanding and then paint the roof again after I have painted the rest of the car.
Looks way to thick and it has jagged edges in places but if you are happy with it, it is all that matters.
You are absolutely correct. It is too thick and the edges aren't perfectly straight. I probably could have done a better job with plain tissue paper, but what's done is done. I personally like the look and I'm not going to start over again. I will say that the camera makes the seams look more pronounced then they are to the naked eye (at least to my eyes which aren't all that great).
I do believe that, when modeling, sometimes there are situations where having things a bit oversized makes for a better appearance. For example, I don't like the look of a true to scale HO sand pile because you can't see the sand. I used fine real beach sand for my sanding house despite the fact that the individual grains are far too large. There is no question that it is a sand pile instead of a blob of whatever.
Each to his own.