YoHo1975 As for NOS. My understanding is it's term that ONLY applies to stuff that a vendor is selling that has NEVEr been purchased by a modeler. it's the old AthearnBB/MDC stuff that sat in the LHS for years gathering dust. Once it gets purchased by a consumer, even if the box was never opened, it's no longer NOS.
As for NOS. My understanding is it's term that ONLY applies to stuff that a vendor is selling that has NEVEr been purchased by a modeler. it's the old AthearnBB/MDC stuff that sat in the LHS for years gathering dust. Once it gets purchased by a consumer, even if the box was never opened, it's no longer NOS.
Rick
And while this may come as a surprise to Don and others, there are still a fair number of people who don't want DCC at all and will be very interested in NIB/NOS DC locomotives.......
Sheldon
hbgatsf Is NIB the correct term for an item purchased by a consumer but never opened? I see items that have been opened to show all the parts are there. Is there a term for that?
Is NIB the correct term for an item purchased by a consumer but never opened? I see items that have been opened to show all the parts are there. Is there a term for that?
eBay requires sellers to follow its guidelines for identifying the Item Condition by using the primary language of the eBay site. Item Condition is defined differently by category, and model railroading items are categorized as Toys & Hobbies, defined as follows:
New: The item is brand new, unused, unopened, and undamaged (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details. In practice, the seller chooses New, but then eBay reports the condition as Brand New.
Used: The item was previously used. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections. In practice, the seller chooses Used, but then eBay reports the condition as Pre-Owned.
Another condition described by eBay is New (Other). An item in excellent, new condition with no wear. The item may be missing the original packaging or protective wrapping, or may be in the original packaging but not sealed. The item includes original accessories. The item may be a factory second. See the seller's listing for full details and description.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain hbgatsf Is NIB the correct term for an item purchased by a consumer but never opened? I see items that have been opened to show all the parts are there. Is there a term for that? According to eBay, there is no such acronym as NIB. At least, eBay does not mention the term NIB in its Help & Contact section. eBay uses what it calls "the primary language of the eBay site". eBay requires sellers to follow its guidelines for identifying the Item Condition by using the primary language of the eBay site. Item Condition is defined differently by category, and model railroading items are categorized as Toys & Hobbies, defined as follows: New: The item is brand new, unused, unopened, and undamaged (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details. In practice, the seller chooses New, but then eBay reports the condition as Brand New. Used: The item was previously used. See the seller's listing for full details and a description of any imperfections. In practice, the seller chooses Used, but then eBay reports the condition as Pre-Owned. Another condition described by eBay is New (Other). An item in excellent, new condition with no wear. The item may be missing the original packaging or protective wrapping, or may be in the original packaging but not sealed. The item includes original accessories. The item may be a factory second. See the seller's listing for full details and description. Rich
According to eBay, there is no such acronym as NIB. At least, eBay does not mention the term NIB in its Help & Contact section. eBay uses what it calls "the primary language of the eBay site".
When you select the "New" option for an ebay listing, it won't let you list the item unless you include a UPC#, which I interpret as a SKU#, like a piece of inventory for a business. There may be some way to load a fake UPC #, or to know what your item's UPC# is, but I assume most folks don't know that.
OP needs to list as Used, then fully describe the product in the description box. I would avoid any misinterpretations that using ebay templates might cause, and say that the items have never been used, or in some cases, not opened.
But as a buyer, I would not want to buy a new 20 year old item that I later found out had a factory defect...like cracked gears?. New is no good if its defective....warranty is long gone.
I would want the seller to have opened the box, inspected that all of the detail parts are installed, that the lights work, and that the loco runs satisfactorily.
I would list the items as used, explain that the item has only been tested for proper operation and has no run time, and list the flaws, iff there are any. I would avoid using the canned ebay "condition" tags like c-8, c-7, which are too canned, IMO.
Don't want to turn this into another ebay thread, but OP is looking for advice on how to sell his trains, hopefully to buy new ones.
- Douglas
Selling and buying on ebay has changed over the years. Some things sell for more than you paid but ussually only if you got a real bargin in the beginning. Keep in mind that the cost of sound is going down and that is why I went DCC. I have many engines and my most expencive was less than $150 brand new, used $100 and include an MTH with all the bells and whistles and a cover shot one with wow sound. Some will pay more and ussually because more that one wants that specific item.
Using an acronym without any clarification or narrative, usually has a strict meaning. New in box and New old stock, in my books, means that the packaging is intact. Here are a few other variations:
Slightly used, in new condition
NIB, opened by seller only to show the content
Looks new, but cannot guarantee (usually for kits)
Someone who adds a decoder cannot claim NOS in my books.
As for the question, I agree with most others, that is, I won't pay for the labour when someone adds a decoder, and there is a risk factor, meaning that it may not have been installed using industry or pro standards. But as I mentioned earlier, if the model and roadname is rare, I may be ready to accept a bit more because there is a decoder in the loco. Once I receive it, I would test it thoroughly. If it runs well, without any clunks, chances are that it is fine. Decoders are pretty robust these days. It's not like you're buying a car with a blown gasket. If the decoder installation is really bad, it will make strange sounds, or the functions will be off. If the wrong tape is used, it will show up through shorts in the longer run, something I can fix easily.
Perhaps the seller could post a picture of the loco in his ad, with the body removed, to show how the installation was done. A good picture would say it all...
Simon
Thank you all for the feedback. I assumed that with the vast majority of engine sales these days being DCC or DCC with sound, that the majority of buyers would prefer an engine that was DCC already. It would appear this is not the case.
NOS-New Old Stock:Item is out of produciton. Box is intact and in good condition. All contents of box are present and the item has not been used. No wear on working mechanical parts. It is considered acceptable to test or inspect said items inside said box, as long as it's only to test the product to make sure it's working with no excess run time. (ie: Testing for cracked gears, or dried lube) It might include an inspection report noting any short comings. These models are considered pristine visually, but may need a little work to reach full potential. (ie: Remove old grease, or replace cracked gears.)NIB-New In Box
Item is brand new and is typically within current production runs. It has never opened and should be covered by warranty. All items present in said box. These parts are considered pristine, and should work out of the box with no work.
Used
Item has been used and might show signs of wear and might have broken or missing parts & documentation. Original box may be missing. There is no implied fitness of operation, outside what the seller states. There is no implied warranty unless seller states otherwise.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Don, I would not assume that those who responded to your post are representative of the market. You'd be surprized what sells out there. I know I am! If our club is anywere representative of what's out there, the majority of modelers do not install decoders on their own.
snjroy Don, I would not assume that those who responded to your post are representative of the market. You'd be surprized what sells out there. I know I am! If our club is anywere representative of what's out there, the majority of modelers do not install decoders on their own. Simon
As a seller on eBay, I often find that I can sell a DC loco faster than a DCC loco, whether the decoder is factory equipped or installed by yours truly. You might ask, if I operate only in DCC, what am I doing buying DC locos. The answer is simple. Like Don, I have purchased DCC Ready locos and never converted them to DCC. On other occasions, I remove the DCC decoder, reinstall the light board and sell them as DC.
That's my experience for what it's worth.
For what it's worth -
I'm a DCC guy.
My latest eBay loco purchases?
One DCC/Sound *FACTORY* Installed NOS unit, and two DC NOS units.
If it's a "Was DC I converted to DCC (or Sound)" I tend to pass unless it's a super good price. (Most are not.)
You may get your decoders from John for $20 (or more) higher than Jim sells them to me. Plus most people add in the time they spent "upgrading" the unit. If I upgrade a DC unit, I don't get paid for doing it... And, you may prefer decoder brand X over my brand Z, and I have no clue if you, or John, or Jim, even did any of it *right*...
So I would look for NOS items actually NOS. If you *upgrade*, can they really be counted as NOS? Or used?
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
YoHo1975 I think this may depend on models. If we're talking Athearn BB, I wouldn't bother, if you are doing say Stewart/Kato F units and used Kato board replacement decoders, then you might be able to upcharge. Especiallyf if your photos included photos of the work done. As for NOS. My understanding is it's term that ONLY applies to stuff that a vendor is selling that has NEVEr been purchased by a modeler. it's the old AthearnBB/MDC stuff that sat in the LHS for years gathering dust. Once it gets purchased by a consumer, even if the box was never opened, it's no longer NOS.
I think this may depend on models. If we're talking Athearn BB, I wouldn't bother, if you are doing say Stewart/Kato F units and used Kato board replacement decoders, then you might be able to upcharge. Especiallyf if your photos included photos of the work done.
DigitalGriffin I'm getting ready to sell my excess NOS stock.
I'm getting ready to sell my excess NOS stock.
eBay? Trade show? Other?
eBay likely soon. I'm going to do a test report on each unit so there are no surprises for buyer.
DigitalGriffin eBay likely soon. I'm going to do a test report on each unit so there are no surprises for buyer.
Consensus seems to be DC. So I'll sell them DC. I just want to make sure they are in excellent working condition for DC. I do care about my reputation as a seller and make sure the buyer gets a good unit.
DigitalGriffin Consensus seems to be DC. So I'll sell them DC. I just want to make sure they are in excellent working condition for DC. I do care about my reputation as a seller and make sure the buyer gets a good unit.
I think its wise to open the never opened box and inspect the loco for flaws and test it to ensure that everything works.
As a buyer, I don't want a seller to just pass along what might be a factory flaw that was never discovered.
An opened and inspected item is better than a sealed box item, IMO.
But once you open and inspect the item, unsealing the box limits how you can use some of the Ebay listing templates. Its a trade off that I think can be made better by a written description explaining that its New, but tested and inspected for factory flaws.
You might have more success selling your installation services through a hobby shop.
DigitalGriffinI just want to make sure they are in excellent working condition for DC.
I would suggest making a short video rercording of the engine(s) running on your test track and saving the file until the customer has received the loco and has no complaints. Maybe have a file card with some description in the frame to help identify the particular engine being tested.
Good Luck, Ed
Doughless DigitalGriffin Consensus seems to be DC. So I'll sell them DC. I just want to make sure they are in excellent working condition for DC. I do care about my reputation as a seller and make sure the buyer gets a good unit. I think its wise to open the never opened box and inspect the loco for flaws and test it to ensure that everything works. As a buyer, I don't want a seller to just pass along what might be a factory flaw that was never discovered. An opened and inspected item is better than a sealed box item, IMO. But once you open and inspect the item, unsealing the box limits how you can use some of the Ebay listing templates. Its a trade off that I think can be made better by a written description explaining that its New, but tested and inspected for factory flaws.
Each case is different. I have two Bachmann undecorated doodlebugs that are not only NOS but still shrink wrapped. I think that would give a buyer more confidence than if I told him I took them out of the box and ran them.
Most products in this industry do not come shrink wrapped, and can be opened, inspected and repackaged with no damage to the packaging. How would you know if someone had a Proto 2000 loco out of the box and put it back carefully?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Doughless DigitalGriffin Consensus seems to be DC. So I'll sell them DC. I just want to make sure they are in excellent working condition for DC. I do care about my reputation as a seller and make sure the buyer gets a good unit. I think its wise to open the never opened box and inspect the loco for flaws and test it to ensure that everything works. As a buyer, I don't want a seller to just pass along what might be a factory flaw that was never discovered. An opened and inspected item is better than a sealed box item, IMO. But once you open and inspect the item, unsealing the box limits how you can use some of the Ebay listing templates. Its a trade off that I think can be made better by a written description explaining that its New, but tested and inspected for factory flaws. Most products in this industry do not come shrink wrapped, and can be opened, inspected and repackaged with no damage to the packaging. How would you know if someone had a Proto 2000 loco out of the box and put it back carefully? Sheldon
When you tell them you openend it for inspection.
Also, some producers have those plastic insert covers that are taped shut, so it is tough to get that back together......if you didn't disclose that you opened it, or ran it for a while, and tried to sell it brand new.
If a buyer bought a new loco at an LHS, they would take it of the box, inspect it and run it before they bought it. As an online seller, I'm providing that assurance to them before they buy it.
If you don't inspect it, you can only sell it as New. The buyer takes the risk that there are no flaws being passed on. Which would then be more risky than buying it from a LHS. And the online buyer might return a flawed item to you and you won't get the sale anyway.
A collector might want a sealed box. But if I sell, I try to cater to operators.
hbgatsfIs NIB the correct term for an item purchased by a consumer but never opened?
I keep on seeing train items descibed as U/A or U/B. Does anyone know what these are supposed to mean?
These items are mostly either Walthers or Athearn.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I agree with you that want to make sure they are in excellent working condition. A seller's reputation and 100% positive feedback means everything on eBay.
Whenever I put up an MR item up for sale on eBay, I spend time working on the Item Description. I let potential buyers know that I bought the item new, that it is in good working order, no damage, no broken or missing parts, and that it includes the original box, inserts, extra parts and paperwork.
Lastly, pack the box for shipping as if the MR item is the crown jewels. The last thing a seller needs is damage during shipping.
Good luck with your listings.
SeeYou190I keep on seeing train items descibed as U/A or U/B
I just saw a group of listings that used the code M/A in the description.
These are all confusing. I notice most auctions using these codes are way over-priced.