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Equipment for hard core operations on a model railroad

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Equipment for hard core operations on a model railroad
Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, January 17, 2022 8:48 AM

This came up in another thread about highly detailed boxcars:

Bayfield Transfer Railway
My biggest concern as a hard core operations type is that the details look awfully delicate to handle being banged around by 500 foot tall giants.

I did not know there were any hard core operators in this forum.

I am not a hard core operator anymore. I was when I built SGRR layout number two, and intended to be with three and four. By the time I built the fifth layout, I knew my interests had changed for my personal layout.

However, if I get invited to a hard core operating session again (post-Covid), I am going, because I enjoy them.

I have operated on hardcore layouts in Nashville, Tampa, Orlando, and Fort Myers.

All of these have had something in common... ATHEARN equipment. Athearn locomotives are rock solid and reliable. Athearn rolling stock looks OK, can be handled, and it operates flawlessly.

So, I am curious, is Athearn still the go-to option for hard core operations? I would assume it is because if operations are the thing, Athearn delivers where it is needed. Maybe not. Maybe operators have decided that more details are better.

-Kevin

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Posted by rrebell on Monday, January 17, 2022 9:16 AM

If a layout is well built and maintained it should not mater if things are highly detailed or not, hard core operations or not. Now if you are only into operations you may say why pay for the details but many like multiple things.

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Posted by dknelson on Monday, January 17, 2022 9:43 AM

Due to deaths, moves, and other factors I rarely operate now but at one time I was attending four or five -- sometimes 6 -- op sessions per month, generally as yardmaster/operator.  Given the size of some of those layouts and that at least one featured timetable and train order operations - yes with all the paperwork and radio "vocabulary" - I'd say I at least know what hard core operations feel like.

This is a surprisingly complex issue or rather I should say even a contentious issue and there are elements of generational conflict in it as well.

The central issue is, can the trains be touched -- do they HAVE to be touched -- during operations?  If they can or need to be touched, then I think there's definitely an issue with today's highly detailed freight (and passenger) cars, and to some extent also with today's delicately detailed diesels and steam tenders, and even with today's scale sized rail and often narrower wheel treads (code 88 wheels).

Because I live in Milwaukee area some of the guys I operated with were pretty famous names from Kalmbach and to some extent, Walthers, and also there was an entire generation of guys who had been operating since the early 1950s.  And the older guys uncoupled cars by lifting up one end, maybe a hold over from the old days of Varney dummy knuckle couplers, or the old Mantuas,  I don't know the reason but they did and could not be broken of the habit even when the layout owners provided swizzle sticks for uncoupling their Kadees.  This was brutal on the handrails of Proto2000 diesels and the grabs and ladders of Kadee boxcars and other nicely detailed cars.  Brutal.  One layout owner would shrug and just say do what's fun.  Another was nowhere near that gracious and some friendships ended and feelings were hurt after his tirades.

And as track and wheels got closer to scale then these older guys, having lifted the car or engine, had a hard time re railing it (age, eyesight may have had a role to play here).  That meant shorts sometimes and we know what those do to a DCC system with sound.  Everybody knows about it.

I myself do not like to touch the cars if I can help it although as yard master sometimes I really had to, especially in an active fiddle yard where the whole idea is to take every incoming car off the rails and into its assigned cabinet or shelf while fresh cars took their place.  That is hard core operations and it is becoming more common.  One friend created elaborate and long train cassettes so a half dozen cars could be lifted off the layout and stored without touching but those darn things make me so nervous I have him do the work even though he acts as dispatcher in another room.  He got into superdetailing cars around the same time and I told him he was going to have to make a choice -- banish the Athearn cars as unprototypical but tolerate damage to the delicate resin cars, or keep the Athearns.  He chose to banish (so I got some of my loaners back after he'd nicely weathered them or replaced the wheels).  

What I do prefer when using the swizzle stick to uncouple is rather than push it between the knuckles, pull at one Kadee "air hose" to uncouple, assuming the layout has no magnets between rails (fewer and fewer layouts do - those used to be nearly universal).  I especially like to uncouple that way when running a local so I can simulate the delayed uncoupling feature manually and use the offset feature and back the car in without having to then reach deeply in to uncouple.    

But as details get finer and finer on today's rolling stock many purists insist on sniping off the Kadee "air hose" so that a scale airhose can be added.  Your cars won't get much praise at a prototype modeler's meet if you leave the Kadee airhose thingy intact.  So in that sense truly highly detailed cars increase some of the difficulties in active operations since now you are left with just the coupler.  And in my frank opinion, the swizzle stick method of uncoupling just works better with Kadee #5s than with the smaller head "scale" couplers.  Just my opinion, but it adds to the operational challenges with highly detailed models that approach contest quality.

These are random and unconnected thoughts perhaps but I think this is an interesting question and I know it raises some heated arguments.  The ultimate solution is a DCC controlled coupler at both ends of every car and locomotive.  I'll be pushing up daisies before that happens but I'd appreciate someone stopping by and giving me a full report.

Dave Nelson  

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Posted by trainnut1250 on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:22 AM

Kevin,

My OPs group uses high detailed cars. We are O scale (On3) and HO scale. For HO scale, there are no Athearn cars on the layout with the exception of a few re-detailed cars.

Most of the rolling stock is either craftsman kits or scratchbuilt. Yes, there are fine details and yes, they do occasionally break (rare, but it happens). The operators in my group are all great modelers and are very careful with the equipment. I figure why not run the good stuff for guys who can appreciate the models?

No one touches the cars unless there is a derailment (rare) or a coupler issue. I do allow operators to touch things without asking. I have had layout tour visitors try the same thing and I have to remind them not to touch.

We use skewers to uncouple cars. In HO, I switched over to 58's when they came out so there are a combination of (pre 58) #5's and 58's on the layout. No issues running them together. I haven't been inspired to go back and replace the #5's - if it aint broke.....

I would be hesitant to invite operators that I don't know to a session due to the delicate nature of the models on the layout. This crystalized for me when I was at an OPsig weekend a few years ago and was assigned to operate on a layout whose owner had met me once in passing. I was thinking would I trust guys I don’t know with my fine models like he did? Fortunately, this has not been a problem for me as I can find operators for sessions from the local train group.

One more thought on the subject - The joke among the locals for years if you break something at a session is, "Don't worry he's a good modeler. He can fix it". Not something you want to hear at your session....

Your mileage will vary,

Guy

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:23 AM

dknelson
This is a surprisingly complex issue or rather I should say even a contentious issue and there are elements of generational conflict in it as well.

Well, I surely hope this thread does not become contentious.

Great points have been made.

On the layout in Nashville I operated on, this was my introduction to really operating a model railroad. It was in the 1980s, so super-detailed plastic freight cars were really not a thing yet. This man was 100% operations oriented. Only about 25% of the scenery was down, and most of the layout was just plywood. Most industried were just cardboard boxes. The grain elevator was actually a cereal box. But... the control system, signals, and CTC panel were all 100% functional. The layout was run on a fast clock, and operation was smooth and easy. Some steam locomotives were missing the pilot trucks because they had derailed. It was all operations, and it was fun.

One of the layouts I operated on in Tampa was fully scenicked, and this is the only layout I have operated that used colored bars on top of the freight cars to direct traffic. All cars were drilled to accept the "bill", and the owner did not mind the unsightliness of all this. This layout was featured in Model Railroader in 2016, and all the equipment for the photo-shoots was borrowed.

Many operators would uncouple cars by lifting one of them. Skewers, as described in another post, work, but can be destructive.

-Kevin

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Posted by ndbprr on Monday, January 17, 2022 12:18 PM

Well do to a couple of moves and honey do work on the houses I can see the light at the end of the tunnel to build my railroad. BUT since I haven't bought much in over ten years I am appalled at $50 and up for detailed cars today. There is no way I can justify putting thar kind of money into the hobby on a retirement income.  Yeah the Rapido stuff in particular is gorgeous  but it isn't budget friendly and all that detail is hard to see when in motion. I also wonder what if any the resale price will be when the day comes to dispose of the collection.  Brass seems to hold up OK but plastic is plastic

 

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Posted by wrench567 on Monday, January 17, 2022 12:45 PM

 It really depends on the operators. When I started in the modular group going to shows I started with detailed rolling stock and structures and expensive to me at the time plastic steam locomotive. After a few inattentive operators and visitors reaching into the layout. My attitude toward details quickly changed. The club layout is different and I have taken highly detailed things to run. I have attended op sessions on a friend's layout many times and all his rolling stock was Athearn, Roundhouse, Bowser and the like.

     Pete.

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, January 17, 2022 1:30 PM

At our club, we have a mishmash of equipment (Athearn, Atlas, MDC, you name it) that pretty much stays permanently on the layout. For serious and less serious operation sessions, they all get used, although some members such as myself bring in their own locomotives. The scenery probably suffers more from the loose elbows than the rolling stock does from the giant cranes.

I usually double-head my locos to ensure a smoother operation. Smooth operation is my first criteria - I try not to rough-handle the equipmentSmile. That can be pretty much any make. Diesels do make things easier, but steam gets their spot for passenger service (good looks, practically no switching).

Simon

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Posted by dti406 on Monday, January 17, 2022 2:30 PM

First of all except for a few cars most of the Athearn cars conform to no known prototype. Since I have tried to model more accurate rolling stock I have removed most Athearn cars from my roster now going with Tangent, Moloco, Scaletrains, Atlas (ex Branchline), Rapido and Intermountain     along with other resin kits.

Our club has monthly operating sessions and we have had no problems with extra detailed cars and we use the skewers with Kadee couplers and we seldom ever touch the cars.  Along with others we usually use double headed gp style locomotives for motive power and double headed switchers in the yard.

 

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Posted by maxman on Monday, January 17, 2022 3:12 PM

wrench567
 It really depends on the operators.

Absolutely correct.  I used to belong to a club, and any operations was really the running of trains for open house.

Unfortunately some of the "engineers" were not as competent as they should be.  Equally unfortunate was the fact that these same guys regarded this whole affair as just "playing with trains".  Since they didn't have any of their own equipment they had no dogs in the fight.

I often mentioned that what we needed to have was a bunch of 2 X 3 boxcars with painted on ladders and grabs.  Oh, and they would have to have Kadees...no stinkin horn hooks allowed.

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Posted by PM Railfan on Monday, January 17, 2022 7:48 PM

Kevin) Good topic! While i cant offer any direct experiences with hard core operations, i just wanted to let you know I share your opinion of Athearns. That is, if your talking Blue Box era.

If it means anything towards your topic, if i was about to attend a hard core operating session - it wouldnt be hard to guess what locos id take...

 

Athearns!

 

To show up with anything less would be -     uncivilized. Dont leave home without them!

 

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Monday, January 17, 2022 8:59 PM

I've been fortunate to have fallen in with a bunch of guys over the past couple of decades who hold what some would call "hardcore" operating sessions based on prototype rules and practices.

The rolling stock fleets have detailed models, but there really hasn't been a problem with damage. The owners set expectations for how their crews treat the railroad's scenery and equipment. If you don't follow the house rules, you're not invited back.

Generally speaking, the most that you touch the equipment on these railroads is by using a skewer to uncouple cars. The exceptions are the guys who stage trains between sessions or during the sessions in a fiddle yard.

The key, as a layout owner, is to set expectations and to stick to them, especially since most home railroads are more-or-less benevolent dictatorships. On a home railroad that's a lot easier than in a club setting.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, January 17, 2022 11:22 PM

dti406

First of all except for a few cars most of the Athearn cars conform to no known prototype. Since I have tried to model more accurate rolling stock I have removed most Athearn cars from my roster now going with Tangent, Moloco, Scaletrains, Atlas (ex Branchline), Rapido and Intermountain     along with other resin kits.

Our club has monthly operating sessions and we have had no problems with extra detailed cars and we use the skewers with Kadee couplers and we seldom ever touch the cars.  Along with others we usually use double headed gp style locomotives for motive power and double headed switchers in the yard.

 

Rick Jesionowski 

 

Money and kit/scratchbuilding construction time aside, what do you do if there is no highly detailed, accurately dimensioned, "correct" car available for a piece of rolling stock that would logicly exist in your chosen layout era and theme?

I can appreciate the desire for accuracy, I started down that road decades before we had all these "perfect" products.

And I have my share, for the era and roads I model, Spring Mills Depot, Fox Valley, Intermountain, Proto2000, Kadee, Rapido (finally), and others.

But many of these newer brands that recieve so much praise make little or nothing in my era.

Same with locos, most of my locos are stuff made in the last 25 years to pretty high accuracy standards.

But I'm building a big layout, and I'm not replacing 50 years of model building and purchasing.

And I found I was having no fun worring about the accuracy or detail level of every freight car.

I model the early 50's, and if you look around or know that era, the selection of "high end" rolling stock for that era is no where near what it is for newer eras. If you restricted yourself to "correct" or well detailed models, you would not have much variety or prototype believeablity to your trains.

It does not bother me one bit to run "generic" Athearn cars right next to newer more correct models, or next to scratchbuilt or craftsman kits I built to higher accuracy standards.

I am building a layout that will require about 1,000 freight freight cars for full operating sessions. And I already have 1,000 freight cars - I'm not spending $50,000 to replace them.

And then there are the 200 passenger cars.......

I guess we all decide what our priorities are - mine are the big layout, CTC operation, long trains, passenger cars with working/touching diaphragms - for which I happily give up any need for every piece of equipment to be a museum piece.

To Kevins question:

I was once a very active member of a round robin group that was (is?) heavy into operations. 

Everyone was very respectful of other peoples equipment.

Uncoupling was almost exclusively with sticks or picks of some sort.

NO ONE had an active fiddle yard for operations - That's why I'm building my layout to stage 30 trains - 30 long trains - 40-50 cars typically.

Equipment handling was minimized.

Personally, for reasons related to the topic at hand, I have no use for semi-scale couplers or code 88 wheels - they are operational weaknesses looking for place to happen. 

Only about 1/3 of the trains involved in any given operating session on my new layout will even require switching/uncoupling. One of the goals is to simulate heavy mainline traffic as well as industrial switching, terminal work, etc.

I have hundreds of Athearn and similar products from the past, they are not going anywhere, they look the part for my era, perfectly correct or not.

I also have stuff from the 50's and 60's like old Athearn and Varney metal cars, etc. People are surprised how well they hold up with just a few upgrades and detail changes.

But with the right bunch of operators, and the right approach to setting up operations, I see no real problems with most high detail equipment for operating sessions.

Guess it depends on who your friends are........

Sheldon   

    

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:06 AM

SeeYou190
Well, I surely hope this thread does not become contentious.

Well, knowing modelrailroaders are mostly opinionated old men ....   Big Smile

Need I say more?

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Posted by cv_acr on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:24 AM

maxman
wrench567
 It really depends on the operators.

 

Absolutely correct.  I used to belong to a club, and any operations was really the running of trains for open house.

Unfortunately some of the "engineers" were not as competent as they should be.  Equally unfortunate was the fact that these same guys regarded this whole affair as just "playing with trains".  Since they didn't have any of their own equipment they had no dogs in the fight.

I often mentioned that what we needed to have was a bunch of 2 X 3 boxcars with painted on ladders and grabs.  Oh, and they would have to have Kadees...no stinkin horn hooks allowed.

 

I suppose it really does depend on the operators. If your operators are going to handle the trains like gorillas, it's a problem.

At my club (which definitely qualifies as a "hard core operations" club) we run large trains, and lots of detailed locomotives and rolling stock. If there are any old Athearn blue-box cars on the layout anywhere still, they're cars that have been extensively rebuilt and detailed.

When we have our operating sessions, people come to operate. Our club has the identity as the "serious" (in terms of modeling goals, we do have fun) club, and we make it very clear the layout is built for operations. 

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:44 AM

riogrande5761
Well, knowing modelrailroaders are mostly opinionated old men .

Well, that's your opinion.........Whistling

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 12:40 PM

I'm strictly lone wolf so I dont have experience with others handling the trains or me handling others' trains.

I have highly detailed cars.  I uncouple by lifting one of the cars  (its short trains).

Maybe its just me, but I think leaving them on the layout exposes them to the errant elbow, finger, or sweatshirt sleeve sweep than me taking them in and out of the box frequently. 

I guess I lose attention when I'm not handling them and can possibly strike them, but pay closer attention when handling them.

Regardless, I don't see where metal wire grab irons, stirrups, and etched metal roof walkways are at a terrible risk.

- Douglas

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:17 PM

cv_acr

 

 
maxman
wrench567
 It really depends on the operators.

 

Absolutely correct.  I used to belong to a club, and any operations was really the running of trains for open house.

Unfortunately some of the "engineers" were not as competent as they should be.  Equally unfortunate was the fact that these same guys regarded this whole affair as just "playing with trains".  Since they didn't have any of their own equipment they had no dogs in the fight.

I often mentioned that what we needed to have was a bunch of 2 X 3 boxcars with painted on ladders and grabs.  Oh, and they would have to have Kadees...no stinkin horn hooks allowed.

 

 

 

I suppose it really does depend on the operators. If your operators are going to handle the trains like gorillas, it's a problem.

At my club (which definitely qualifies as a "hard core operations" club) we run large trains, and lots of detailed locomotives and rolling stock. If there are any old Athearn blue-box cars on the layout anywhere still, they're cars that have been extensively rebuilt and detailed.

When we have our operating sessions, people come to operate. Our club has the identity as the "serious" (in terms of modeling goals, we do have fun) club, and we make it very clear the layout is built for operations. 

 

Lots of gorillas in our club. Worse: some of the guys bring finger food in the meeting room and don't necessarily wash their hands when they come back to the layout room Angry. So, I keep a close eye on my locos and won't allow anyone to touch them if there is a derailment. As for the rolling stock, well, let's just say that they are not all in pristine condition. Gorillas with big, orange-stained fingers can do a lot of damage. It is what it is...

Simon

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Posted by John-NYBW on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:38 PM

I think Accurail has replaced Athearn as the source for low cost, shake-the-box freight car kits with minimal fine detail. I prefer not to have the fine detail because it is so fragile. I never did like the Athearn coupler system. It was too easy to strip off those little plastic nubs that held the metal clip in place. Accurail has a much better system. 

I have all the freight cars I need now but when I was still adding Accurail cars to my fleet, I knew I would add several enhancements. First would be #5 KDs and later #148 whisker couplers. Metal wheels have using the Micro-Mark truck tuner. Then I would add weight to my standard of 1 oz. for every 10 scale feet. After checking everything was right for performance, I would add weathering, sometimes heavy, sometimes light.

I still have some Athearn BB freight cars from a previous layout. I'd guess Accurail outnumbers those 2-1 and together comprise about 90% of my freight car fleet.  

I am a lone wolf operator with a large 24x48 basement layout. I operate using sequencing rather than fast clock. I have yet to fully operate according to the schedule I have made because I have yet to complete my short line and I don't have all the passenger coaches needed for all my commuter trains. What operations I have conducted have revealed some flaws in the trackwork that I am addressing as needed. Hopefully the day is not too far off when I can do a full blown schedule without numerous operating incidents. In the meantime, I sometimes enjoy just running trains back and forth over the layout with no rhyme or reason.

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Posted by nealknows on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:59 PM

As others have mentioned, great topic Kevin!

However, does hardcore operations relate to prototypical freight cars and engines on your layout? This is a model railroad, and while we try to get as accurate as possible, we can only do so much. 

I operate on a layout where his operations seem, IMO hardcore. He follows rules set by the railroad he models, uses a timetable to the best of everyones abilities and a fast clock. Train orders, car cards, etc. However, every now and then, there's a derailment, a freight car or engine goes awry, and you do what you have to do; pick it up and fix it! In the real world they call for the crane crew to lift the car or engine back on the tracks. 

On my layout I hold operating sessions with jobs to run that session. Hand out paperwork to all. Assign a yardmaster, dispatcher, couple engineers and we're off and running. Is it hardcore? No. Is it enjoyable? Yes it is. 

I look at it as whoever owns the railroad sets the rules. Either you like it or you don't. I thought I wouldn't like the guys operating sessions. After participating in a few, I find them enjoyable and I learn a couple things to incorporate into my sessions.

Neal

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Posted by dehusman on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:47 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "hard core operators".  We have numerous layouts in my area that have regular operating sessions, some with 4 operators, some with 20.  All of them have a mix of cars from resin kits and scratchbilt down to Athearn blue box.

I don't know exactly what you consider "hard core operations", I know that the formal or prototyical operating sessions have some sort of car forwarding system that tells the crews where the cars go, some sort of organized transportation plan or schedule of trains where different trains have different duties and and some sort of organized method of disptching or routing trains over the railroad. 

On my layout I operate the Wilmington & Northern Branch of the Philadelphia and Reading Rwy (Reading) in 1903.  The layout is roughly 24 x 24 and uses 7 crews and a dispatcher.  Wilmington has an industry switcher and a yard engine.  Coatesville and Birdsboro have yard engines that work both the yard and industries.  There are 3 road crews that operate a mix of through freights, passenger trains and locals.

I use timetable and train order to dispatch and if I don't have a dispatcher I use a timetable and verbal authority.  

I have a timetable for the regular trains (passenger, 1 freight and 2 locals) and all the other trains are operated as extras.

The car forwarding system is car cards and waybills (CCWB), but I have switch list forms if you want to write your own switch list.

In my area most people use CCWB, but there are a couple that use CCWB and handwritten lists and a couple that use computer generated lists.  Most use some sort of verbal authority, I'm the only TT&TO guy currently operating.

COVID has really cut into the operating sessions, but there are a few now and then.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by Autonerd on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 7:56 PM

Go Athearn Blue Box!

It's not so much about operations, but for use at our club (now museum), I personally prefer Athearns (non-Genesis) old and new, MDC, Accurail and the like.

Reason? Even though most people are careful, there's still some handling. Our rule is that if a train parts or derails, the offending car and the one to which its coupled must be removed for inspection, so handling is always a possibility.

Plus, we have a 28-scale-mile main line so we put a LOT of miles on our cars. Simplicity and robustness are important. Detail isn't, because the cars are so damn far away most of the time you can hardly see them!

People do bring more expensive equipment but I tend to prefer the stuff that is more immune to injury and easier to repair. I have seen a member (accidentally) drop a $50 Kadee boxcar. It wasn't mine, but it was no less traumatic. That car was a goner. If I drop a $10 blue box Athearn, who will even know? And if they do suffer some old-age malady (perhaps warped floors making it impossible to set coupler height -- seen that a couple of times) another $10 car provides a replacement. That rarely happens -- we have plenty of decades-old cars on our layout. Most are Athearns, some MDCs. They last forever.

Someone mentioned the Athearn coupler boxes -- we now have a mandate at our club that these must be drilled and affixed with screws. A Line's Bulls Eye jigs make this a pretty simple job.

I do have a few Branchline cars (and right now one Genesis car) on the layout as a sort of experiment... so far so good, but they're behaving themselves and haven't had to be pulled. Generally I don't leave my Genesis locos on the layout for long -- handrails are always getting twisted out of shape by errant fingers or errant scenery.

I do have a thing for cheap cars. Walthers Mainline passenger cars, once I learned to set them up properly, are among my most reliable and trouble-free. Lucky for me they are NYC prototypes. :)

We're stil workign on ops at the Museum but a friend does ops sessions at his home layout. He generally uses Athearn cars. Lack of detail isn't an issue... when you're trying to get your set-outs and pick-ups done and off to the next town before the next freight jams you up for 20 minutes, you don't care what they look like! :)

Aaron

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Posted by wp8thsub on Tuesday, January 18, 2022 9:11 PM

20201109_215455

by wp8thsub, on Flickr

I've found that even highly detailed cars, like those above from Arrowhead, Moloco, and Athearn Genesis, survive just fine.  It helps to have trouble free trackwork and effective tuning of the equipment to ensure reliability.  In addition, explain the ground rules on caring for the models to the operators so they know what's expected.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by John-NYBW on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:09 AM

Autonerd

We're stil workign on ops at the Museum but a friend does ops sessions at his home layout. He generally uses Athearn cars. Lack of detail isn't an issue... when you're trying to get your set-outs and pick-ups done and off to the next town before the next freight jams you up for 20 minutes, you don't care what they look like! :)

Aaron

 

I've always been of the opinion that missing detail isn't noticeable at all. On the other hand, if there is some fine detail that has broken off and hanging out of place, that sticks out like a sore thumb. Likewise, one finely detailed boxcar in a string of Athearn BB and Accurail boxcars is going to make the latter look bad by comparison. When a train is running, I'm looking at the big picture so fine detail is a waste.

There's a place in this hobby for those exquisite models but I think they are wasted in everyday running.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:18 AM

John-NYBW

 

 
Autonerd

We're stil workign on ops at the Museum but a friend does ops sessions at his home layout. He generally uses Athearn cars. Lack of detail isn't an issue... when you're trying to get your set-outs and pick-ups done and off to the next town before the next freight jams you up for 20 minutes, you don't care what they look like! :)

Aaron

 

 

 

I've always been of the opinion that missing detail isn't noticeable at all. On the other hand, if there is some fine detail that has broken off and hanging out of place, that sticks out like a sore thumb. Likewise, one finely detailed boxcar in a string of Athearn BB and Accurail boxcars is going to make the latter look bad by comparison. When a train is running, I'm looking at the big picture so fine detail is a waste.

There's a place in this hobby for those exquisite models but I think they are wasted in everyday running.

 

When I run only an 8 car train at 20 scale mph tops, I can see the detail.  When I switch cars 1 to 3 at a time slowly, I see the detail.  That's the only way I run the layout, so I always see the better detailed cars stand out from the less detailed.

What really stands out are the better paintjobs, but that's not subject to damage and is a different topic.

Switching layouts tend not to be club-oriented, so there is a difference there too.

I don't need detail or fidelity, I just think they look better. 

If God swooped in and struck down every model railroad car and left only BB, MDC, and Accurail, I'd have just as much fun with the hobby.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Midtown Sacramento
  • 3,340 posts
Posted by Jetrock on Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:02 AM

Operation means a lot of different things, depending on whether your layout is large or small, individual or club, and what operating scheme you use. Less-detailed models are often simpler for a big layout where many people will handle the equipment and visual distances usually too far for rivet counting, but a solo operator with a switching layout who gets close up might want more detail.

 

I compare an "operating" MR layout to other hobbies involving painting tiny plastic mans, like miniatures wargaming. Many wargamers spend a lot of time and money creating and detailing artistically beautiful miniatures, and sometimes they are intended solely as dioramas and static models, but generally the point is to play the game. That means enough durability to transport them in a case and move them around the battlefield. Operating a layout brings a static model to life, increases challenge and creates new opportunities to enjoy the hobby with like-minded friends, with the accompanying risk of damage to finely detailed models, by yourself or others.

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