Hi all,
I was looking over the new Athearn RTR SW1500. They are listed at a much higher price then other RTR locos, and almost as high as genesis locos. I wonder why the price is so much higher, and what the railroaders in this forum think.
Matt
Maybe price increase in china or where they are made taxes up shipping costs?
I had the same thought on pricing for the RTR SW1500, for $10.00 more check out the Genesis MP15AC, similar switcher with that offers much more especially in DCC . I pre orderd (ATHG74631) from Factory Direct Hobbies, best online price.
Bayway Terminal
The thing is that the price is dramatically higher than other RTR locos. I suspect they upped their game or they just want more mone.
Bayway Terminal I had the same thought on pricing for the RTR SW1500, for $10.00 more check out the Genesis MP15AC, similar switcher with that offers much more especially in DCC . I pre orderd (ATHG74631) from Factory Direct Hobbies, best online price. Bayway Terminal I definitely would pre order those if they ran espee this time. Sadly they did not, and most railroad they have are to modern for my 80s layout.
I definitely would pre order those if they ran espee this time. Sadly they did not, and most railroad they have are to modern for my 80s layout.
Just a side note. Factory Direct Trains has expanded its business to include other hobbies, and is now at www.factorydirecthobbies.com
My guess -- and it is entirely a guess -- is that they are upping the quality of RTR models, with the Roundhouse line taking the place of the older RTRs. I think they are doing more prototype-specific details on these SW1500 units, things such as operating ground lights (very cool on a switcher!!), plus they are upgrading to LEDs and the new 21-pin-decoder motherboards.
I have a couple of the Roundhouse GP40-2s and I think they use the old blue-box style tooling (ie one-piece shell, no fancy see-through fans), and they do have seperate grabs but don't have detail on the pilots (snow plows, air hoses, etc). Wasn't that pretty much the way RTR models were a few years ago?
Aaron
Oh, and I have heard (from a friend in the industry) that shipping prices from China have gone CRAZY. They tend to make these things in one batch, and ship all together in a small number of containers, so a container price going up can really affect what we pay. (So much for saving $$ by manufacturing overseas. Too bad Irv's not still molding these things in Compton, California...)
Autonerd My guess -- and it is entirely a guess -- is that they are upping the quality of RTR models, with the Roundhouse line taking the place of the older RTRs. I think they are doing more prototype-specific details on these SW1500 units, things such as operating ground lights (very cool on a switcher!!), plus they are upgrading to LEDs and the new 21-pin-decoder motherboards. I have a couple of the Roundhouse GP40-2s and I think they use the old blue-box style tooling (ie one-piece shell, no fancy see-through fans), and they do have seperate grabs but don't have detail on the pilots (snow plows, air hoses, etc). Wasn't that pretty much the way RTR models were a few years ago? Aaron Aaron
I agree Aaron. I own a couple older athearn rtr tunnel motors, and those are pretty much equal to the roundhouse today. I also guess that they are upping the quality and adding more detail. Here is a forum that has some good pictures of a tunnel motor from 2005.
https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/30102.aspx
BrassModeler Hi all, I was looking over the new Athearn RTR SW1500. They are listed at a much higher price then other RTR locos, and almost as high as genesis locos. I wonder why the price is so much higher, and what the railroaders in this forum think. Matt
It may depend on the run. There are a number of runs of RTR SW1500's starting around 14 or 15 years ago, and those could be had street price for around $60 or $70 dollars. Each time a new run has been done, the prices have gone up. The most recent runs are a good deal more expensive than the last because of increased labor costs much higher (3x or more) shipping container costs.
Anything that has been announced by Athearn in the past 12 months has had drastically higher prices. Heck, the RTR Fruehauf trailers have tripplied in price (per trailer) than about 8 years ago. The lower cost stuff like rolling stock and trailers have gone up more than engines because the shipping cost is overall a bigger hit on the per unit than engines.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I think the new RTR SW1500 is supposed to have a newly designed can motor. I assume the new motor will be in most new run RTRs. I also think that Genesis locos will have a new motor. Probably the same, one motor for both line-ups.
- Douglas
Doughless I think the new RTR SW1500 is supposed to have a newly designed can motor. I assume the new motor will be in most new run RTRs. I also think that Genesis locos will have a new motor. Probably the same, one motor for both line-ups.
The 12+ year old SW1200 based on the same chassis. They have can motors even then and run very smoothly.
From the Athearn website:
NEW FEATURES:
• Operating ground lights
• Newly designed can motor is more powerful and quieter than before
• DCC-ready models feature 21-pin plug
• DCC & sound models feature Tsunami2 sound with dual cube speakers
• LED lighting for long life and reliable operation
Looks like they have been moved into the Genesis line.
riogrande5761 Looks like they have been moved into the Genesis line.
The announcement for the SW1500 is in the Athearn RTR line...
Neal
nealknowsThe announcement for the SW1500 is in the Athearn RTR line.
Yes, but didn't some of the Genesis line locos get moved to RTR when Athearn announced the Genesis 2 line?
nealknows riogrande5761 Looks like they have been moved into the Genesis line. The announcement for the SW1500 is in the Athearn RTR line... Neal
If that is true, there goes Athearn again blurring the lines between product lines.
From what Doughless quoted:
The two above features have so far been associated with the Genesis line -
1) Operating ground lights was one of the additions that bumped Genesis to Genesis 2, and
2) Tsunami 2 has so far been a Genesis feature vs. RTR that used Econimi sound decoders.
So you have to understand when I read the features, the SW1500 appeared to have moved to Genesis. Perhaps the lack of tread plate is a feature that caused it to fall short of Genesis designation? That said, the price went up into Genesis range! At this point, we are bandying semantics, or Athearn is. Whatever.
maxman nealknows The announcement for the SW1500 is in the Athearn RTR line. Yes, but didn't some of the Genesis line locos get moved to RTR when Athearn announced the Genesis 2 line?
nealknows The announcement for the SW1500 is in the Athearn RTR line.
I can't think of any examples off hand, but most of what Athearn has been announcing in the past year fall outside of my interests (making my wallet happy, especially with the sharp rise in pricing!)
But Athearn has moved Genesis models to RTR in the past such as the Genesis RBL 50' boxcars going to RTR, like my Evergreen single plug door box cars and a few others.
OTOH, the nicly detailed single bay Airslide jumped from RTR to Genesis in the last run and were priced at around $58 something range MSRP and street price at around $48 - $52 last summer. Athearn added 2 or 3 extra details to justify the move and price increase.
But even RTR stuff like the former MDC FMC 4700 covered hopper new run is listed at MSRP $49.99! That is an RTR model selling at Genesis level MRSP, a silly high price which Athearn tells us is mainly a result of the quadrupling price of shipping.
Here are comments from Athearn regarding the sharper increases in prices of non-loco models during the past year or so:
the cost to ship and transload that one model (inside a shipping container) has quadrupled in the past year, hence the price increase. The shipping cost is roughly the same no matter what the item is. It's felt a lot more on the cheaper items - a $10 increase on a $28 item seems like a lot compared to a $10 increase on a $330 item.
The context of those comments was regarding the 45' Fruehauf trailers that once sold for about $26 for a 2-pack and the most recent announcement has MRSP of $34.99 for a single trailer and $39.99 for the primed for grime version trailer. Holy Cow! I bought all of mine in the two packs a few years back and boy am I glad I don't need any from the new run! Same goes for reruns of many other models announced by Athearn in recent months that I already thankfully have.
Whatever it is, if we want it, we buy it or go to the secondary market, buy a used one or a new 'older' version and be done. Or, we don't buy it.
Posting here complaining isn't going to change the mind of a manufacturer. What will change their thought process is when the dealers stop pre-ordering or they don't get enough pre-orders to commit. Rapido does that. Others will learn as well...
nealknows Whatever it is, if we want it, we buy it or go to the secondary market, buy a used one or a new 'older' version and be done. Or, we don't buy it.
Kinda goes with out saying but there, oops, you did it again. Sometimes I fall victim to similar comments.
When the cost of new models goes up much faster than my disposable income, it usually means I buy less and sell more out of scope models, or in some cases pass over models - I expect that will be happening more and more this new year and going forward.
I'm posting observations, not complaints. I'm usually the one to, like you, respond to complainers. Things are the way they are. If it is superfluous to you, feel free to ignore and walk on by (as the song goes).
Rapido and Walthers seem to be the most prone to cancelling announced models due to lack of pre-orders/demand. Each manufacturer seems to have their own way of doing things.
I can't say that I can follow the evolution of a model from the RTR to Genesis line, or from Genesis to Genesis 2.0, but I would put Genesis 2.0 models under the umbrella of having proto specific details.
While the Sw1500 might have nice detail and features that might be common to most SW1500's, I ASSUME that the RTR would not go so far as to, say, mold different exhaust stack extensions per protoype practice or photo; or have other locomotive specific doo-dads. (Like Rapido has done with their Sw1200s, Walthers too)
If you look at some of the more modern era offerings from Genesis, Athearn has two different versions of the same UP GP38-2, one for 2000-2010 era, and another version of a post 2010 era. It comes down to the addition/deletion of certain detail parts and slightly different paint-schemes or striping.
I would think that RTR would not go to that level of precision even though the fineness of the details that are applied are Genesis quality.
I don't know the SW1500 but had the impression it's shell was correct vs. the prototype. If anything I've read that the SW1000 was a cludge with some body features not faithful to the prototype but enough feature to looks visually like the real SW1000. That said, you may be correct in that the body is not close enough to qualify for Genesis branding.