Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

HO vs N

11750 views
21 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2010
  • 38 posts
HO vs N
Posted by Mr Ron on Thursday, September 30, 2021 12:22 PM

This has been brought up many times with many different views. Some are implying that one is BETTER than the other. Others say it's a matter of available space for a layout, others say HO is more realistic than N and others say it's a matter of reliability. The latter two have been defused so I want to add my 2¢. To me it's a question of comittment to one scale or the other. A lot of money can be spent in either scale and that is my case. I have spent over $1000 in track and equipment and wish I had done it in a different scale. I now have HO and wish I had gone with N scale, now that I know that reliability and realism is no longer an issue. BTW, my HO is Marklin.

Smarter than the average bear
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Guelph, Ontario
  • 4,819 posts
Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:08 PM

Two big factors to consider are space available and what you want to model. If you have a basement available and you want to model protypical 100 car trains then N scale is your ticket. If you're modelling a branch line or industrial operation that typically sees shorter trains and a generally more compact setting then HO scale will allow you to add more detail. 

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:27 PM

I have modeled in both. N scale from 1983-1994 (or so), and HO from 1994 (or so) until now.

I had three N scale layouts, one 3 by 7, one that was an empire, and one that was supposed to be 2 by 20 but never grew past 2 by 8.

This is going to sound wrong, but it was my experience... HO works better in smaller spaces.

My N scale empire was astounding, 50 car trains with triple headed GP35s, soaring mountains and vast canyons. It looked amazing. Robert Petrick posts in here in N scale, and he has accomplished the same sort of thing, only much better than I did.

When I built that third 2 by 8 N scale layout, it was very disapointing. Without the massive scenic vistas it did not look right.

I built my first HO scale layout on the same perimeter/footprint, and it looked much better to me.

It seems odd to say that HO is better suited to smaller spaces, but it was appropriate for me.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Canada
  • 1,820 posts
Posted by cv_acr on Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:39 PM

HO Scale is "better" because it's larger, easier to detail, and good for seeing and handling if you have poor eyesight, and wider selection of both kit and ready to run models.

N Scale is "better" because it's smaller, allowing longer trains, larger yards and industries and better scenery-to-track layout.

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: Canada
  • 1,820 posts
Posted by cv_acr on Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:42 PM

SeeYou190
It seems odd to say that HO is better suited to smaller spaces, but it was appropriate for me.

HO is a nice "operating" scale for a compact industrial switching layout, and you can do a lot of super-detailing in a small area.

N is a nice scale for when you don't even have room for a compact HO switching layout, or paradoxically, when you have LOTS of room for nice sweeping scenic features.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,667 posts
Posted by rrebell on Thursday, September 30, 2021 1:55 PM

Marklin is a whole other thing as is the european scene just to start out the conversation. The thing about HO is the viewable details to scale, things like grab irons have a hard time scaling down to N and in HO many are oversized. Scenery itself is more detailed in HO just because some things don't scale. Did some static grass work recently and decided not to use any 12mm stuff because it looked out of place, used 2mm, 4mm, and 6mm on top of a grond cover and zip base. N scale has longer trains going for and rail yards can be much bigger. For those into passenger trails it is far easier to get a proper looking radius. As a side for those into more modern stuff, a lot of the detail gotten in a larger scale is not there in the first place like running boards and turn buckles etc. What it is in the end is a compermise. What is important to you and what space do you have.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Thursday, September 30, 2021 4:32 PM

Mr Ron

This has been brought up many times with many different views. Some are implying that one is BETTER than the other...

This is positioning, or social posturing.  It's an affirmation of one's choice. What people ought to say, but often can't bring themselves to say publicly, is that their choice is the best of more than two, or the better of only two options...FOR THEM. Or that they're stuck with what they brung, and can't find a way out of it. 

 

Mr Ron

...Others say it's a matter of available space for a layout, others say HO is more realistic than N and others say it's a matter of reliability. The latter two have been defused so I want to add my 2¢...

Once again, this is their conclusion based on their own assessment.  They've forgotten to ask you what your parameters and other circumstances are.  Yet again, self-affirmation at work here.   And probably a severe restriction in range of modeling experience.

Mr Ron

...To me it's a question of comittment to one scale or the other. A lot of money can be spent in either scale and that is my case. I have spent over $1000 in track and equipment and wish I had done it in a different scale. I now have HO and wish I had gone with N scale, now that I know that reliability and realism is no longer an issue. BTW, my HO is Marklin.

 

And here you have explained your own criteria for finding contentment, and for not moving away from, a given set of circumstances.  For you, it's cost.  For others, it could be a lack of knowledge, lack of courage, a late stage of life where they don't have the spike of motivation on which to call, a suspicion that it might be a mistake, or a perceived lack of materials and support.

Better is always subjective, and that comes from a clear understanding of all the pertinent facts.  Strangers won't know what is pertinent for you.  Even then, on a public forum, they'll often argue with your decision.

BTW, and I don't know if it's still even somewhat true, but at one time not long ago N scale items were not nearly as numerous or representative of the prototype as were the HO items.  That also tended to keep some away from N scale.

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Thursday, September 30, 2021 7:36 PM

Ron,

Both HO- & N-scale have their pluses and minus.  And they are different for each of us because we all have our different interests and focus in regards to MRRing.

The biggest minus of N-scale for me is era-specific availability.  If you model '80s and newer era locomotives & rolling stock then N-scale is a reasonable option.  I model 40s NYC steam & early diesel and HO-scale offers me waaaay more selection than N-scale.

And I beg to differ with you on realism.  HO-scale looks more realistic than N-scale - especially when it comes to trucks and couplers.  While HO isn't perfect in that regard (i.e. it's also oversized), it still looks less toy-like than N, IMO.

Again, I think the prime thrust in choosing a scale is what you desire to model and what is currently (& could potentially be) available for you to meet your modeling goals.  If you can do that in a smaller size then switching scales makes sense.  If switching scales limits your modeling efforts then you need to determine if those limitations will ultimately hinder your enjoyment of the hobby.

My My 2 Cents...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous!
  • 3,392 posts
Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:18 PM

There is no contest. HO is superior - period. It always has been.

For me, that is. For everybody else, you'll have to make your own determination.

I tried N years ago. Couldn't get the darned things to stay on the track. Slow speed operation was very poor. Detail was almost non-existent. Did I say this was years ago? Emphasize the word years. As in many of them.

Not nearly so many years ago I attended an operating session on an N schale layout. It was a blast, and the layout and trains had none of the problems I mentioned in the preceeding paragraph. N Scale has come a long way.

But there's one thing above all else that makes HO superior for me - I can't read the darned car numbers in N Scale without a good magnifying glass! Heck, it's going to be problem reading HO car numbers in the not-so-distant future!

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 2,360 posts
Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:37 PM

Can we pls avoid the one is better debate?  Seriously!  There should not be one. 

It depends on what you're looking for multiple factors.  They include space, time, money, interest, etc.  It's dizzying weighing what one is more important.  The answer is all of them!

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, September 30, 2021 8:47 PM

For me it is an age thing.  I’m older than dirt, when I started my current layout everything worked pretty good but 35 years later things don’t work very good at all.

At 84 the bigger the better.  As one ages your eyes don’t see as well, arthritis sets in and your fingers can’t do what they could do 35 years ago.

If I had been modeling in N sale my layout would have been a thing of the past, HO is very tough for me at 84.  I had one bad knee at 50 so I built my layout for easy access thinking ahead, can’t even think how bad it would have been had I not thought about the future.

If you are building a model railroad for long time use I would go with a larger scale.  If your plans are short term N would workout OK.  At 84 G gauge would be much better than HO for me.

This is my forth layout since I started in HO scale back in 1951, I wish I ran as well as my 70 year old locomotives.
 
Mel

 
My Model Railroad   
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

  • Member since
    May 2017
  • 382 posts
Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Thursday, September 30, 2021 9:14 PM

Select according to the constraints you have.

Do you want, the broadest range of ready to run equipment, have space to spare, and enjoy models that are small enough to store easily but big enough to be display pieces? Then HO is a natural fit.

Do you have a compact space, are okay with a limited range of equipment and willing to scratchbuild more stuff, and want trains that are so small they can easily all be stored, or do you want a heightened focus on scenery and not the trains themselves? Then N scale becomes more appealing. 

As for operations, as others have noticed N scale mechanically is more robust now than it was say 20 or 30 years ago; so both are valid choices for somebody who loves to run trains or even build switching and operations focused layouts. HO though will always be blessed with a larger market share and plenty of ready to run equipment at your fingertips. You are also more likely to find friends with HO layouts were you can bring your own trains to play at (not saying N-scalers wouldn't do that either, but HO being a bit more popular is easier to find a larger social circle around it). Again, just select based on need for a project, neither is inheritently "best" or "better" than the other.  

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Fullerton, California
  • 1,364 posts
Posted by hornblower on Friday, October 1, 2021 7:04 PM

Being an avid operator, I can say that either scale can be made to run successful operations.  It can be rather difficult to read road numbers on N scale rolling stock but I've also had trouble reading HO scale road numbers on heavily weathered rolling stock.

I have recently been installing DCC in several locos including my first try at an older N scale Life-Like GP18.  I add DCC + Sound + Keep Alive in all my HO scale locos and the Keep Alive circuits not only avoid stalls but allow the HO scale locos to crawl at incredibly slow speeds.  The only decoder I could squeeze into the N scale Life-Like GP18 was a Digitrax DZ123 (that's DZ as in "Z" scale). While I was able to add LED head and rear lights, there was no way I could add sound or a Keep-Alive to this loco.  It does run pretty smooth down to about 10 scale miles per hour but simply can't compete with a similar HO scale loco.

Hornblower

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, October 1, 2021 7:25 PM

Mr Ron
I have spent over $1000 in track and equipment and wish I had done it in a different scale. I now have HO and wish I had gone with N scale, now that I know that reliability and realism is no longer an issue.

Life is short, sell what you have and switch, right now.  One of the finest BMW motorcycle collections in the US was once a Civil War memorabilia collector.  He dumped it all and built a world class motorcycle collection.

I'm 69, I've spent more than that on motorcycles, hunting, shooting, tools, wine, scotch, women, vacations, wine, children, bad stocks, cars I didn't need.

BTW $1,000 wouldn't buy a small corner of Howard Zane's layout. 

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, October 1, 2021 8:23 PM

Mr Ron

I have spent over $1000 in track and equipment and wish I had done it in a different scale. 

How long have you had the layout? $1,000 in track and equipment? I would be too embarrassed to admit how much I have spent on my layout(s) over the past 17 years. As Henry said, sell it off now and get into N scale if that is what you want.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 1,162 posts
Posted by PC101 on Friday, October 1, 2021 9:16 PM

Would I be correct that you would not get your $ back if you sell the $1000.00+ investment now? But then again it is Marklin. Just curious, is it Steam, Diesel or Electric locomotives?

It's hard to tie up money, and worst to loose on your investment. 

I would keep the HO stuff if it does not take up much space, a grand+ can't be that much in ''stock'' and start to invest in N-scale. As time moves on and N-scale is what you are sure you want to do, then sell or use the HO-scale to trade for more N-scale.

I do have (primary) HO-scale at home and (secondary) N-scale at work. Best of both worlds for me and I only would have to move the DC Power packs back and forth to run the trains until I acquired more DC power packs. I now have moved to DCC at home and still use DC at the work layout. For me, Model Railroading is a life style.

 

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 1, 2021 11:45 PM

richhotrain
How long have you had the layout? $1,000 in track and equipment?

I have spent over $1,000.00 in September alone!

I would walk away from a $1,000.00 model railroading mistake easily. Do what makes you happy (meant for the OP, not Rich).

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    July 2010
  • 38 posts
Posted by Mr Ron on Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:02 PM

SeeYou190

 

richhotrain
How long have you had the layout? $1,000 in track and equipment?

I would walk away from a $1,000.00 model railroading mistake easily. Do what makes you happy (meant for the OP, not Rich).

-Kevin

 

The $1000+ I have spent is from the Trump stimulus bill. Other than that, I don't have much for future train purchases so I probably will stay with Marklin HO. I have to stop watching train videos; they discourage me due to their well executed layouts that I know I would never even come close.

Smarter than the average bear
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: US
  • 135 posts
Posted by WRGMILW on Sunday, October 3, 2021 9:38 PM

To All Here 

Trains are fun in all sizes. 

 O gauge rail & Ho are my two main sizes . 

I dable in On30 & N . 

If I have move to Senior Apartments because of life , I have Nscale to play with. 

I have Plenty of O & Ho to run .  On30 runs on My Ho track .   

Covid hopefully will scale down soon.  

I like running trains at friends houses .  

Pick A scale you really like & Have fun !   

 

 

CHARTER MEMBER OF THE MILWAUKEE FALLEN FLAG MODEL TRAIN CLUB .  I COLLECT HO, N , O-3rail & On30  Trains & run them !  I Use KATO HO & N scale Track . I also Use Lionel Fast Track !   I change track layouts Often !  

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, October 3, 2021 11:25 PM

Mr Ron
I have to stop watching train videos; they discourage me due to their well executed layouts that I know I would never even come close.

Well, then you should probably avoid threads in here where Garry, Ed, or Wayne share pictures of their layouts!

I will never build anything as beautiful as what you see in magazines, but that never stops me from having fun and sharing my hobby... just jump right in and join.

I want to see a Marklin layout build thread.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,667 posts
Posted by rrebell on Monday, October 4, 2021 7:57 AM

My layout looks like the best from the magazines, trouble is I was shooting for as photo real as possible, unfortinatly I don't have that skill so I have to settle for a caricature of what I want. Maybe I should have gone with a larger scale for more detail but I just didn't have the space. As far as cost, my hobby has cost nothing as I have bought most at bargin basement prices and paid for the rest out of selling what I ended up not needing. What I am trying to get at is go for what you want to end up with, look deep inside and the easiest thing to look at in my opinion the type of layout you want, that alone can lead you in one direction or another. Next is era, if you want to run stuff that needs broad curves and desided on a running railroad, your space will dictate what you can do. Next would be level of detail wanted, if you want to model indiviual leaves on a tree, then HO is too small. Ect.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Monday, October 4, 2021 9:35 AM

Mr Ron
I have to stop watching train videos; they discourage me due to their well executed layouts that I know I would never even come close.

I know how you feel, Mr Ron!  When I started my first layout several years ago, I was inspired by some of the photos of layouts done by experts.

I quickly realized that if I was going to enjoy it, I had to get over the idea that my layout was going to reach the great level of some of the forum's posters.

I still try to do my best and aim high, but I've grown to enjoy the hobby even though my layout won't win any awards.  I also never never take pictures of parts of the layout and then resize the photos into very close-up shots.  All it does is show up all the mistakes I made that aren't as visible to the eye.

I see on your bio page that you live near Biloxi.  We used to spend a lot of time there near the beach.  The best was Aunt Jenny's seafood restaurant in Ocean Springs.  All-you-can-eat catfish and shrimp.  Heaven.

York1 John       

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!