So, I was just wondering what the feasibility of removing the front truck would be on a BLI 2-8-0? Setting aside prototype for a moment and speaking strictly models, I frankly can't imagine the front truck helping the loco navigate curves or turnouts.
The reason I ask is because I thought it might be neat to have an 0-8-0 work the yard. Kind of a dumb thread topic but, ya know, curious minds want to know!
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
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The Baltimore & Ohio did it - that is, they removed the pilot truck from some of their 2-8-0s to make 0-8-0s out of them. Why? Many factors, one of which was that the quick rise in popularity of the 2-8-2 in the years before and around World War I left several railroads with a surplus of 2-8-0s which had been acquired to be mainline freight haulers just a few years before that and they were now relegated to lesser duties.
One of those lesser duties would be yard work. Whereas the Pennsylvania Railroad was in something of the same boat as the B&O in terms of quickly replacing their 2-8-0s with 2-8-2s, the PRR used its Consolidations "as is" in yard work but could also use them on the main line or on branch lines if need be (the PRR had comparatively few "true" 0-8-0s compared to almost all other railroads around), while the B&O reasoned that since the pilot truck actually lessened the tractive effort a little and was not needed at slow yard speeds, and since every additional wheel or moving part is a complication, then get rid of it. If all the engine weight is on drivers that is ideal for a switcher. By doing so however the B&O basically was making the yard assignment permanent for these de-trucked Consolidations. There were some railroads that would send an 0-8-0 out onto the main - I have seen photos of a Northeastern road maybe the Rutland? [amended post: I now think it was Central of Vermont] with an 0-8-0 on a freight train. But it would not be ideal, or common, and there might have been speed restrictions. And perhaps a rough ride for the crew in the cab.
Off the top of my head I do not know the driver size of a B&O consolidation but presumably it might have been a bit larger than what would normally find in a pure switcher. All the more reason to want to do what could be done to improve tractive effort.
So anyway there IS a prototype for what you seek to do, and the reasons for doing it were real and legit. What I do NOT know is if the B&O had to do anything with their "gelded" Consolidations in terms of weight distribution now that there was no longer a pilot truck.
Dave Nelson
Great Northern also made some 0-8-0's from 2-8-0's. In fact, only their C-1 class was built new as an 0-8-0. All the others were converted (C-2 through C-5).
They removed the pilot truck, re-did the equalization, and brought the pilot beam back aways.
Here's a model of a C-4:
Going the other direction: SP&S never had an 0-8-0. But they had a goodly number of 2-8-0's, and used them as necessary. Same for NP. Some railroads thought it wouldn't work to de-truck a 2-8-0. GN did. In doing so, they got a bit more oomph by getting rid of a non-powered axle.
Ed
The CNR removed the pilot trucks from quite a few of their older low-drivered Consolidations, making them into 0-8-0s.
Some of their Consolidations with larger drivers had tonnage ratings comparable to many of their Mikados. I have three Bachmann Consolidations to convert into 2 CNR Consolidations and one for the DW&P....all with pilot trucks.
Wayne
Ok. Thanks guys. But prototype aside would removing the truck hinder the engines performance at all? I can't imagine it would but you never know.
The caveat in real life was that more care was needed with how the lead driver pair was given flange and tread profiling and lateral accommodation. See a discussion of British practice including Stroudley's Gladstone 0-4-4s or some of the 'auto' equipped 0-6-0s that could run above 60mph for possibly helpful ideas...
Santa Fe also converted a whole lot of their 2-8-0s into 0-8-0s.
I personally hate the look of them because the front sticks out too much and looks like its missing a wheel, but hey, it is prototypical!
As far as operation, removing the front truck shouldnt cause any change in performance. It may derail slightly more often when traveling through curves and turnouts at high speeds, but given you're going to use it as a switcher, I see no issue.
Charles
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JDawg Ok. Thanks guys. But prototype aside would removing the truck hinder the engines performance at all? I can't imagine it would but you never know.
Simon
snjroy JDawg Ok. Thanks guys. But prototype aside would removing the truck hinder the engines performance at all? I can't imagine it would but you never know. I don't think so. Why not try? Simon
I don't think so. Why not try?
No, it won't affect the model. The prototype, as at least two responders have stated above, would need some re-engineering and shop work to helf the two lead axles support more of the load (the engine truck DOES support weight, in addition to helping to steer the nose of the steamer). But our models don't rely on the trucks for anything except to help them with the illusion. Those drivers already in place do the trick, and in real time.
The one exception I can think of would be if the front truck was used for power pick up which I doubt. PRR had some C1 0-8-0s that were truly massive boilered beasts. However they weren't very popular and fairly rare. Pennsy loved their 2-8-0s and they literally had thousands of them. Just for the recordthe PRR had more engines within several classes then many other railroads had engines in total.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
I don't see why removing the truck would be a problem. It may even allow the loco to take tighter curves due to the fact that the truck wheels wouldn't rub against the cylinders or the frame. Many prototype railroads converted 2-8-0s into 0-8-0s, so it's not unheard of. But the most importent thing of all is, will you be happy with it? If so, then that's all that matters.
I had a look at the exploded diagram for this loco, and can't see any problem. Of course,.........
I think it will make a great 0-8-0. MIGHT want to move the pilot beam back, which would mean replacing the steps/ladders. MIGHT be more work than it's worth. But the beam doesn't look all THAT far forward.
Good idea!!
Why go to the trouble of removing the pilot wheels just to have "a switcher"? Do the practical thing and "use it like it is", so that it can double as a road engine, too. Seems like many engines doing yard duties these days are older road switchers.
I remember a day at the Conrail (former NHRR) East Class yard in North Haven CT, early 1980's. Instead of the usual switch engine, they gave my crew a late-model GP40-2 to use. Now THAT was a nice switcher... made a good impression. Almost 40 years later I still remember the number... 3225!
OldEngineman Why go to the trouble of removing the pilot wheels just to have "a switcher"?
Why go to the trouble of removing the pilot wheels just to have "a switcher"?
"The reason I ask is because I thought it might be neat to have an 0-8-0 work the yard."
OldEngineman Why go to the trouble of removing the pilot wheels just to have "a switcher"? Do the practical thing and "use it like it is", so that it can double as a road engine, too. Seems like many engines doing yard duties these days are older road switchers. I remember a day at the Conrail (former NHRR) East Class yard in North Haven CT, early 1980's. Instead of the usual switch engine, they gave my crew a late-model GP40-2 to use. Now THAT was a nice switcher... made a good impression. Almost 40 years later I still remember the number... 3225!
On the prototype the lead wheels carry weight and steer the loco into curves. Removing the lead truck puts that weight on the drivers and increases tractive effort while reducing max speed. More desirable for a switcher.
Sheldon
Ok. Thanks for all the reply's. Just so we are clear, I am not modifying the model in any way. I am only going to remove the screw on the front pilot. I did so and it runs the same if not better than with the pilot removed. Thanks all.