Is it possible to use real dirt from the garden mixed with diluted white glue for ground cover. I remember hearing years ago that you need to bake the dirt in an oven to kill any micro organism that may be present before you apply the dirt. Any thoughts?
New York Central 54
I would not use garden soil, but you might have a better quality garden than I do.
However, I have "collected" lots of dirt samples from my trips out West that I intend to screen/sift and use for ground cover.
Baking seems unecessary. I was planning to use a rinse of diluted bleach.
I am interested in what others have to say.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Here in the UK baking soil is the done thing. The trouble is sometimes baking has to be done two or three times. The effort taken is not worth the slim reward.
I use dried tea for soil.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
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It really depends on the type of soil. If your soil includes a lot of clay, it won't work real well. Non-clay soils may be fine.
I made some dirt for my layout by baking soil in the often, then sifting it for different grades. It didn't work for general ground cover, but it works great as ballast when mixed with stone ballast (for a line that sufferes from not enough maintenance). Here's a six minute video of how I make it into my dirty ballast:
2021 01 08 How I Make "Dirty" Ballast - YouTube
The problem with clayish soils is that the expand when wet, then shrink as they dry. I thought real dirt would work great for my yard dirt, but this is what I got:
It looked a lot worse in person. The dirt cracked and split all over the place! I tried a thinner application, and still no joy. But it works great as a major ingredient for ballast, so I still make and use it.
As ballast:
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
PruittIt really depends on the type of soil. If your soil includes a lot of clay,
By the Chesapeake Bay, my soil was really just sand, and I have a whole tub of it. The reason to bake it was to sterilize it. In Virginia, my soil looks like unbaked bricks, has the consistency of fudge or really tough modeling clay when wet.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I use real dirt all the time. My buddies and I have been doing this for many years now. No problems with bugs or other critters as everything is so soaked with glue that the critters don't have a chance.
I collect dirt from a variety of places and sift it through various screens to end up with fine powder. I use all of the various sizes of dirt particles on the layout in various locations.
Both photos use sifted real dirt.
Have fun,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I have found from talking over the years that roughly 60% silts to 40%clays. Silts of a rather fine texture is ideal. Not everybody has that though. Mor recently unsanded grouts are becoming popular.
Shane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
trainnut1250Both photos use sifted real dirt.
Guy, those are great pictures.
Your modeling looks wonderful.
I made up two batches of real dirt some years ago. Yes I did spread it out on a decent-sized baking sheet and put it in a slow oven for about two hours.
I then rough pulverized it by placing the dried and cooled soil in heavy plastic bags and pounded it with a large faced rubber mallet.
I'm fortunate to have a decent selection of W.S. Tyler test sieves and I passed the soil through these making three grades of ground cover. The finest was run through a 260 mesh screen and is quite like paint pigment.
I have two colors, one being a golden-tan color and the other more like a burnt sienna color. I don't use them exclusively for my main ground cover, afterall, paint is but earthen pigment in a binder or carrier.
What I find it very useful for is to sprinkle into foliage, especially static grass "tufts" which make them look "planted" rather than just sitting on top of the soil.
Here's a small patch at the lower left:
Signal_11-21oh by Edmund, on Flickr
The area around this burned out cabin is homegrown real dirt:
Camp-tracks by Edmund, on Flickr
The parking lot (car park) is real dirt:
PRR_SG_tower-10-15 by Edmund, on Flickr
Good Luck, Ed
sorry off topic, but gmpullman could you check your messages?
Charles
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Trainman440sorry off topic, but gmpullman could you check your messages?
Got it, Charles Thanks, Ed
I use zip texturing. Real dirt is hard to get the right color or texture, at least in HO. You can also brush in the zip mixture to your ground cover to blend it in better.
SeeYou190 trainnut1250 Both photos use sifted real dirt. Guy, those are great pictures. Your modeling looks wonderful. -Kevin
trainnut1250 Both photos use sifted real dirt.
Kevin,
Thanks for the kind words
I've used gravel gathered on our street for a small diorama a few years ago. I sifted it to two sizes. I will use leftovers for my upcoming scenery work. For finer dirt, I plan on using commercial grout. It's not cheap but I can get pretty much the color I want and I don't need to do any further preparation.
Simon
I use real dirt all the time as a base cover in a lot of areas. It's easy (for me) to find various colors locally.
I screen it and glue it down using the same method used for ballast. The key is the screening. I first use a sifter with a mesh that is similar to window screen in size. That then goes through another sifter with a very fine mesh, netting almost powder, but still granules.
Anything "living" in it wouldn't pass that fine screen and any micro-organisms would be permanently sealed in with the glue.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Most of the soil in VA where I live is reddish clay, so best to avoid.
Great pics of actual dirt being used.
NVSRRI have found from talking over the years that roughly 60% silts to 40%clays.
Even 40% clay would be pretty clayey. I used to classify soils for a living and we did the thread test to roughly estimate percentage of clay.
But I'd agree, you probably want no clay for anything on a layout. None really. Silt and fine sand, may be ok.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I have used real dirt for scenery, I keep an old baking pan for it and simply cook it on the grill to dry it and kill whatever is in it.
I also do a fair bit of concrete grinding and I save the concrete dust for scenery, it makes great concrete.
BigDaddyIn Virginia, my soil looks like unbaked bricks, has the consistency of fudge or really tough modeling clay when wet.
I had to dig a French drain earlier this year here at my house in Fairfax County.
It was like shoveling blocks of hard peanut butter ice cream out of the ground. It was exhausting.
I've been using real dirt all along. We have clay soil here. I break it up, crush it into smaller bits, then I run it through an old electric coffee grinder until it is dust. It has worked great for me all these years.
To use it, I sprinkle it where I want it, I use tape to keep it off where I don't want it, then I mist it with a fine spray of "special" water, then apply diluted Elmer's glue.
Joe
I started using real dirt for my scenery a few years ago and the results are so realistic I can't imagine doing it any other way. I followed the advice of Lou Sassi and Jeff Wilson I believe.
I go out to the backyard and scoop some dirt into a large container. Then I use a piece of window screen to sift out the stones and large debris. This fine dirt is then sprinkled between my fingertips onto wet paint on the layout scenery base. I sometimes mix it with WS fine cinders to create an awesome muddy railroad yard look. You can then put whatever ground foam you want on top of that. (I use coarse turf almost exclusively)
The real dirt adds great texture, allowing you to use ground foam more sparsely. In my opinion, having the dirt show through is highly realistic for railroad right-of-ways, industrial lots, and alongside roads. I love the look of bare dirt ground. Not everything should be a perfectly manicured lawn! No grass mats jeez.
-Matt
At work, some years ago, we were shipping ingots to another company by truck, rather than rolled products by train, as was the usual process.
This took place at the north end of our mill, with smallish ( 10 or 15 ton) ingots being placed on the ground beside the tracks, with room for trucks to back in between the piles, which were two or three ingots high. This went on for several weeks.When that finished, I took a stroll down to the area and noticed that the ground was pulverised into dust, both from the weight of the ingots and the flow of trucks in and out. The next day, I brought an empty Woodland Scenics shaker container to work, filling it with the dust .I later ran it through a couple of seives to remove any stuff that was too big.
I have about a little less than half of it left...
as I used it here....
...and on this siding...
...and at the nearby team track parking area, mixed in with some real limestone gravel...
Wayne
I utilize as much home grown items as I can but effort vs. results, at least for N scale soil, I opted for Senic Express fine natural soil & dirt. One quart averages $11. It is light brown and looks great. I can see the quart lasting a lifetime. For very fine applications (N scale), thin base layer of glue, then I took an empty spice container, one with the shaker holes in the cap, and stretched a piece of fine shear nylon sock under the cap and tap on the bottom to apply a very fine grain layer, powder consistency. You can apply with spoon but found it clumps and you get a mix of fine to larger grains. Once down, secured with standard scenery eye dropper glue technics, slowly. Don't spray with glue, will get craters.
I cannot access my copy, but in the Kalmbach book Building A Model Railroad With Personality by John Olsen, I believe there is information about collecting and using real soil on a model layout.
SeeYou190 I cannot access my copy, but in the Kalmbach book Building A Model Railroad With Personality by John Olsen, I believe there is information about collecting and using real soil on a model layout. -Kevin
The narrow gauge branch of the hobby has been using real dirt for many years. There is lots of info in that community on the process.
I have at least 20 bags of different colors and sizes of dirt and fine gravels that I use.
Here is a quick run down of the techniques I used with real dirt to create the look in the bottom photo.
I found some dirt whose color was close to the area I am modeling. I sifted it down to fine powder. Biggest issue here is color of the dirt after glue application. Most dirt dries considerably darker after gluing than the dry material that you start with.. Some testing will be needed to get the color right. Get a shade of light grey (powered pigment, or dirt) and mix with your dirt until you get the right formula.
I applied the dirt in layers. For the first coat I applied the dirt to the track and tried to get it as perfect as I could. This was sprayed with wet water and soaked with a diluted white glue solution. Remember to point the spray up and let it rain down as mist until the area is soaked. The last part is to spray (lightly) water over the area to wash dirt off of the sides of rails etc...After drying there will be voids, etc in this layer.
The next coat is a fill coat that is applied and wetted and glued to even out the base coat.
After drying the area should be well covered with no holes. The finish coat is done by sifting the dirt into glue applied to the dirt surface. The glue must be carefully placed so that it doesn't wick up rails etc...
Depending on the look of the last coat when dry, I will usually sand the surface with 120 grit paper and finished with some weathering chalks to give the right dusty look.
I hope this is helpful,
trainnut1250I have at least 20 bags of different colors and sizes of dirt and fine gravels that I use.
I don't think I have 20 bags, but I collected a lot of great colors of real dirt that I just don't see in hobby shops.
Thanks for your post. It contained a lot of very good information.
There is a article in this months model railroader aug layout built from dirt from crawling space