7j43k And, JJF, what ARE those three CV's, and in what way should they be modified? I just ran my Rapido SW1200 and my Atlas S-2 again. The running quality at slow speed seems comparable, at least at the moment. The S-2 is smoother, but runs a bit faster at the lowest speed step. It's also got that famous DCC buzz, but with the sound on, you can't hear it. The SW1200 still has a bit of herky-jerky at slow speeds, now and then (maybe it needs "the buzz"???) I expect, but don't know, that both problems can be fixed. Actually, I just did for the S-2. CV2 was at 3, I changed it to 1. Another comment: I REALLY like having momentum. Not only does the loco act like it has significant mass (like when I hit a cut of reefers with it), but it seems to run better at low speeds, too. I typically set my Loksounds at CV3 and 4 being 60, and my Soundtraxx at 80. This is of course changeable. Just now watching the S-2, I think I might up its number to 80 and see what happens. Getting the SW1200 to be just right might take some more work. Maybe adjusting the "motor kick" or something. THOSE CV's I know nothing about. Yet. Ed
And, JJF, what ARE those three CV's, and in what way should they be modified?
I just ran my Rapido SW1200 and my Atlas S-2 again. The running quality at slow speed seems comparable, at least at the moment. The S-2 is smoother, but runs a bit faster at the lowest speed step. It's also got that famous DCC buzz, but with the sound on, you can't hear it. The SW1200 still has a bit of herky-jerky at slow speeds, now and then (maybe it needs "the buzz"???)
I expect, but don't know, that both problems can be fixed. Actually, I just did for the S-2. CV2 was at 3, I changed it to 1.
Another comment: I REALLY like having momentum. Not only does the loco act like it has significant mass (like when I hit a cut of reefers with it), but it seems to run better at low speeds, too. I typically set my Loksounds at CV3 and 4 being 60, and my Soundtraxx at 80. This is of course changeable. Just now watching the S-2, I think I might up its number to 80 and see what happens.
Getting the SW1200 to be just right might take some more work. Maybe adjusting the "motor kick" or something. THOSE CV's I know nothing about. Yet.
Ed
Cv2 (start voltage)- Value of 1
Cv5 (max voltage)- Value of 123
Cv6 (Mid voltage)- Value of 63
To deal with the BEMF buzz, I changed CVs 52, 53, 54, and 55 to the following values. This HELPS, note HELPS with the buzz, but does not eliminate it!
CV 52- Value of 32
CV 53- Value of 140
CV 54- Value of 48
CV 55- Value of 32
Also, triggering Function 7 activates switching mode, giving you even finer slow speed control.
Oh, one more thing you can to improve your lovely S2, is to change BEMF from adaptive to a constant frequency. This will help with the buzz/hum at slow speeds. The value changes depending on your personal preference regarding sound effects, so here is the info atraight from the horses mouth, I.e. the manual
"ESU has determined that the background noise generated by the BEMF circuitry can be reduced by using CV124 to specify that the BEMF circuitry use a Constant Regulation Frequency instead of an Adaptive Regulation Frequency. This change is made by setting bit number 4 of CV124 (when bits are numbered in the North American way from 0 to 7) to the binary value “1,” which is equivalent to adding “16” to the current decimal value of CV124. This modification to the behavior of the LokSound Select decoder was first implemented in Atlas Gold Series HO-scale RS-1 and N- scale S-2 locomotives and is planned to be used in future Atlas locomotives that use LokSound Select decoders. With this change, the new default value of CV124 is 20. If you wish to convert an older Atlas Gold Series locomotive equipped with a LokSound Select decoder to use a Constant Regulation Frequency, make one of the following changes to the value of CV124:
Set CV124 = 16 if you want no Prime Mover Startup Delay
Set CV124 = 20 if you want to retain Prime Mover Startup Delay."
I know this is a lot of info but it is, by my standards, comprehensive. Enjoy!
JJF
Prototypically modeling the Great Northern in Minnesota with just a hint of freelancing.
Yesterday is History.
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
But today is a Gift, that is why it is called the Present.
I changed my settings per this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZCJHRDBV_g
Here is a snip with the values, plus you can see the time it is discussed in the video.
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Rick
JDawg Cv2 (start voltage)- Value of 1 Cv5 (max voltage)- Value of 123 Cv6 (Mid voltage)- Value of 63 To deal with the BEMF buzz, I changed CVs 52, 53, 54, and 55 to the following values. This HELPS, note HELPS with the buzz, but does not eliminate it! CV 52- Value of 32 CV 53- Value of 140 CV 54- Value of 48 CV 55- Value of 32 Also, triggering Function 7 activates switching mode, giving you even finer slow speed control. Oh, one more thing you can to improve your lovely S2, is to change BEMF from adaptive to a constant frequency. This will help with the buzz/hum at slow speeds. The value changes depending on your personal preference regarding sound effects, so here is the info atraight from the horses mouth, I.e. the manual "ESU has determined that the background noise generated by the BEMF circuitry can be reduced by using CV124 to specify that the BEMF circuitry use a Constant Regulation Frequency instead of an Adaptive Regulation Frequency. This change is made by setting bit number 4 of CV124 (when bits are numbered in the North American way from 0 to 7) to the binary value “1,” which is equivalent to adding “16” to the current decimal value of CV124. This modification to the behavior of the LokSound Select decoder was first implemented in Atlas Gold Series HO-scale RS-1 and N- scale S-2 locomotives and is planned to be used in future Atlas locomotives that use LokSound Select decoders. With this change, the new default value of CV124 is 20. If you wish to convert an older Atlas Gold Series locomotive equipped with a LokSound Select decoder to use a Constant Regulation Frequency, make one of the following changes to the value of CV124: Set CV124 = 16 if you want no Prime Mover Startup Delay Set CV124 = 20 if you want to retain Prime Mover Startup Delay." I know this is a lot of info but it is, by my standards, comprehensive. Enjoy!
Let me know if this works for you all!
JDawg JDawg Cv2 (start voltage)- Value of 1 Cv5 (max voltage)- Value of 123 Cv6 (Mid voltage)- Value of 63 To deal with the BEMF buzz, I changed CVs 52, 53, 54, and 55 to the following values. This HELPS, note HELPS with the buzz, but does not eliminate it! CV 52- Value of 32 CV 53- Value of 140 CV 54- Value of 48 CV 55- Value of 32 Also, triggering Function 7 activates switching mode, giving you even finer slow speed control. Oh, one more thing you can to improve your lovely S2, is to change BEMF from adaptive to a constant frequency. This will help with the buzz/hum at slow speeds. The value changes depending on your personal preference regarding sound effects, so here is the info atraight from the horses mouth, I.e. the manual "ESU has determined that the background noise generated by the BEMF circuitry can be reduced by using CV124 to specify that the BEMF circuitry use a Constant Regulation Frequency instead of an Adaptive Regulation Frequency. This change is made by setting bit number 4 of CV124 (when bits are numbered in the North American way from 0 to 7) to the binary value “1,” which is equivalent to adding “16” to the current decimal value of CV124. This modification to the behavior of the LokSound Select decoder was first implemented in Atlas Gold Series HO-scale RS-1 and N- scale S-2 locomotives and is planned to be used in future Atlas locomotives that use LokSound Select decoders. With this change, the new default value of CV124 is 20. If you wish to convert an older Atlas Gold Series locomotive equipped with a LokSound Select decoder to use a Constant Regulation Frequency, make one of the following changes to the value of CV124: Set CV124 = 16 if you want no Prime Mover Startup Delay Set CV124 = 20 if you want to retain Prime Mover Startup Delay." I know this is a lot of info but it is, by my standards, comprehensive. Enjoy! Let me know if this works for you all!
I went to program CV52 thru 55 and found out that I must have already programmed them to those exact values a long time ago. I chose 124 to 20.
It virtually eliminates the buzz. Very faint even when on mute, but my Atlas S2s were never as buzzy as other Loksound Select locos.
- Douglas
Doughless JDawg JDawg Cv2 (start voltage)- Value of 1 Cv5 (max voltage)- Value of 123 Cv6 (Mid voltage)- Value of 63 To deal with the BEMF buzz, I changed CVs 52, 53, 54, and 55 to the following values. This HELPS, note HELPS with the buzz, but does not eliminate it! CV 52- Value of 32 CV 53- Value of 140 CV 54- Value of 48 CV 55- Value of 32 Also, triggering Function 7 activates switching mode, giving you even finer slow speed control. Oh, one more thing you can to improve your lovely S2, is to change BEMF from adaptive to a constant frequency. This will help with the buzz/hum at slow speeds. The value changes depending on your personal preference regarding sound effects, so here is the info atraight from the horses mouth, I.e. the manual "ESU has determined that the background noise generated by the BEMF circuitry can be reduced by using CV124 to specify that the BEMF circuitry use a Constant Regulation Frequency instead of an Adaptive Regulation Frequency. This change is made by setting bit number 4 of CV124 (when bits are numbered in the North American way from 0 to 7) to the binary value “1,” which is equivalent to adding “16” to the current decimal value of CV124. This modification to the behavior of the LokSound Select decoder was first implemented in Atlas Gold Series HO-scale RS-1 and N- scale S-2 locomotives and is planned to be used in future Atlas locomotives that use LokSound Select decoders. With this change, the new default value of CV124 is 20. If you wish to convert an older Atlas Gold Series locomotive equipped with a LokSound Select decoder to use a Constant Regulation Frequency, make one of the following changes to the value of CV124: Set CV124 = 16 if you want no Prime Mover Startup Delay Set CV124 = 20 if you want to retain Prime Mover Startup Delay." I know this is a lot of info but it is, by my standards, comprehensive. Enjoy! Let me know if this works for you all! I went to program CV52 thru 55 and found out that I must have already programmed them to those exact values a long time ago. I chose 124 to 20. It virtually eliminates the buzz. Very faint even when on mute, but my Atlas S2s were never as buzzy as other Loksound Select locos.
Ahead of the game eh Douglass?
Thanks, guys, for the bits of CV information, and such.
I never realized there WAS a buzz until I tried running with the sound off. Since I enjoy sound, I feel no necessity to bother with "buzz-proofing" my loco. Still, it's good to have the info handy.
Thanks again,
Doughless I was considering it. But they have way too many prototype specifc details for my taste, making it a purchase only if I was modeling that specific railroad in that specific of a timeframe.
I was considering it. But they have way too many prototype specifc details for my taste, making it a purchase only if I was modeling that specific railroad in that specific of a timeframe.
I guess that is why Rapido makes an undec version, with the only option is the type of trucks.
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Doughless I was considering it. But they have way too many prototype specifc details for my taste, making it a purchase only if I was modeling that specific railroad in that specific of a timeframe. I guess that is why Rapido makes an undec version, with the only option is the type of trucks.
Good to know.
Modelers of second hand locos probably would not need all that is included in the Rapido undec, nor is the specific loco itself a necessity. An SW7 or NW2 might be an option.
However, I would be interested in knowing if Rapido would sell the staunchioned sill-attached long hood handrail part separately so I could add it to this Phase V NW2:
but I do like to have my second hand looking locos factory painted, but all painted Rapido versions would then come with the specific details and narrow era conditions.
If they did a painted generic version of a SW1200, like the NW2s below, It might move me to buy one:
Rapido and BLI appear to have a similar approach regarding the models they produce, and to me it appears somewhat schizophrenic. Both make models that are as close to prototypical as possible. As Santa Fe modeller, Rapido's RDCs are the best models of the Santa Fe set ever produced. BLI produced excellent models of Santa Fe's 3751 class 4-8-4s and 3800 class 2-10-2s. For their more recent models, the E1 diesel and the 4000 class Mikado, they relied on input from the Santa Fe Historical and Modeling Society (the E1 is beautiful and superior to their previous E6/7/8 offerings, and I am still waiting for the two Mikados I ordered).
On the other hand, both companies are also happy to sell you foobies. Rapido produced a Santa Fe steam generator car and several passenger cars which never existed on the prototype; the models are not even close. Similarily, BLI's Santa Fe Consolidations and Pacifics are just PRR or USRA locomotives labelled ATSF.
JW
Doughless but I do like to have my second hand looking locos factory painted, but all painted Rapido versions would then come with the specific details and narrow era conditions.
What "narrow era conditions" exist on the locomotives except the paint scheme? EMD's, especially switchers, are often resold to other railroads. It is not rare for the second hand locomotive to keep many details that came on the locomotive when delivered. Even something as unique as the SP lighting package still existed on a third hand SW1200 in 2019.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5153531
54 years after delivery to the SP. Pretty wide era if you ask me.
While I don't do freelance, it seems like it would make for an interesting second hand locomotive. Weather the crap out of it, paint out the SP lettering with some flat black, looking like it was done with a rattle can. Add some cheap new reporting marks, bing bang boom.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4174588
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2418507
That second engine...
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=55972
n012944 Doughless but I do like to have my second hand looking locos factory painted, but all painted Rapido versions would then come with the specific details and narrow era conditions. What "narrow era conditions" exist on the locomotives except the paint scheme? EMD's, especially switchers, are often resold to other railroads. It is not rare for the second hand locomotive to keep many details that came on the locomotive when delivered. Even something as unique as the SP lighting package still existed on a third hand SW1200 in 2019. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5153531 54 years after delivery to the SP. Pretty wide era if you ask me. While I don't do freelance, it seems like it would make for an interesting second hand locomotive. Weather the crap out of it, paint out the SP lettering with some flat black, looking like it was done with a rattle can. Add some cheap new reporting marks, bing bang boom. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4174588 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2418507 That second engine... http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=55972
Ok, thanks for the pics. I looked around for a pic a while ago but not very hard. I don't really need a prototype pic to "allow" me to have a SW1200 with an SP light package if I really wanted one anyway. I've already been there with other lokies.
As modelers, we can turn anything into anything, but the narrow era comes from what you're paying for, paint and assembly included. Its still fussing over things that I don't need to fuss about.
Its now a lost cause anyway. Its out of stock almost everywhere. I now have a demand for the loco, but, its been one month since its release. Should have had my research all completed a long time ago.
7j43k It doesn't run very well at speed step one. Jerky. I have yet to do the Auto-tune--that might fix it. Ed
It doesn't run very well at speed step one. Jerky. I have yet to do the Auto-tune--that might fix it.
Have you gotten it to run better at low speed? Is the problem only at step 1?
n012944What "narrow era conditions" exist on the locomotives except the paint scheme?
In the case of the Rio Grande, they modified their SW1200's in a way that outwardly showed a change in the top hood in front of the windshield. Walthers offered a nice SW1200 months ahead of Rapido and I did purchase one. But Rapido were including the part that represented that modification. D&RGW did this mod in the 1978-1980 time frame. Any SW1200 later than around 1979 would need it to appear era correct.
There was another factor. Back when Rapido announced the SW1200, there was no D&RGW in the first run. I pestered the guy who was heading the project and he added it to the line up. Even though I had purchased the Walthers version, I felt obigated to purchase a Rapido D&RGW also, since I had bugged them and they responded. Thank you Rapido!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
JDawg Just wondering if anyone has bought one of the sw1200's...
Just wondering if anyone has bought one of the sw1200's...
If I were modelling the '50s (or even the '90s) I would have bought a half-dozen of them, as the real ones are my all-time most favourite offering from GMD/EMD.
Unfortunately, they would look out of place in the late '30s.
Wayne
doctorwayneIf I were modelling the '50s (or even the '90s) I would have bought a half-dozen of them, as the real ones are my all-time most favourite offering from GMD/EMD. Unfortunately, they would look out of place in the late '30s. Wayne
Some forum topics these days focus on trains that are out of my time period, espcially more modern stuff, and for the most part, I am leaning more and more to scroll on by because eventually I think people get tired of reading posts things that allude to "not of interest to me because it's the wrong period". You know what I mean?
These are not the droids I am looking for.
hbgatsf 7j43k It doesn't run very well at speed step one. Jerky. I have yet to do the Auto-tune--that might fix it. Ed Have you gotten it to run better at low speed? Is the problem only at step 1? Rick
It ran dramatically better after doing the Auto-tune. The problem was only at low speeds, and worst at step 1.
riogrande5761...I think people get tired of reading posts things that allude to "not of interest to me because it's the wrong period". You know what I mean?
Yup, Jim, I getchyer drift. When I was modelling a later era, I converted some Athearn switchers into faux SW1200RS locos, as used by both the CNR and the CPR, although I did mine for my freelanced road...
In my opinion, the real ones were the best looking utilitarian locomotives that EMD/GMD ever built.
This review just hit Youtube.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
He's pretty good! I think I'll follow him.
He DID miss the enormous gap under the exhaust stacks, though. Another 5 points there.
I notice that the SP model had the grab iron on the top of the hood, above the "ladder". And I have noticed that Rapido chose not to put that detail on their Great Northern model.
I certainly will not diagree with his rating.
His reviews are generally all about shell details relative to the prototype and not about slow speed performance, smoothness, or drivetrain noise, so I give the reviews about a 40/100 because of that.
He seemed to miss how much larger the end handrails are than the handrails along the side. Every pic I've seen of the SP unit seems to show larger diameter end handrails than side handrails, but that might just be an illusion. The coupler cut levers are disappointing.
Overall, the amount of do-dads placed all over the loco makes it look toy like, IMO, and the bright white paint makes the ones that are too large stand out.
I think other roadnames look better. The GN looks nice, especially with the flexicoil trucks.
And Wayne's looks better than all of them.
I cannot imagine being a manufacturer today and be expected to meet all these little roadname specific detail targets.
However, those coupler cut levers are awful, and there is no excuse for those stacks not fitting properly. The cab lights looked right to me, and the lighting overall was impressive.
Those factory installed couplers were terrible. I would have deducted 10 points for them.
I can't put my finger on exactly why, but the Proto-2000 SW switcher looks so much better.
I would also like to know about actual performance both out-of-box and after a break-in period.
I will never pronounce Kato as Kah-Toe. All of us Green Lantern/Pink Panther fans know how to pronounce Kato.
DoughlessAnd Wayne's looks better than all of them.
+1
Living the dream.
7j43k hbgatsf 7j43k It doesn't run very well at speed step one. Jerky. I have yet to do the Auto-tune--that might fix it. Ed Have you gotten it to run better at low speed? Is the problem only at step 1? Rick It ran dramatically better after doing the Auto-tune. The problem was only at low speeds, and worst at step 1. Ed
I've purchased several Lok equipped locos that are jerky at slow speeds, some have a mild vibration too at slow speeds.
I chalked it up to motor break in, but if the Rapido has this issue too, I'm more likely to think its a decoder issue.
I think Rapido even admitted they bit off more than they could chew with this run of SW1200's.
I will never pronounce Kato as Kah-Toe.
There is the Japanese way and there is the murican way!
SeeYou190I can't put my finger on exactly why, but the Proto-2000 SW switcher looks so much better.
I think the details are finer on the 20 year old P2K. The molded in details too.
As a general rule, all of our details are overscaled. The more that are put on, the more toylike something looks, IMO. Especially the white paint and all of the easily legible decals all over the loco. Looks very busy.
A simpler version like the MILW or DRGW, and with black paint, probably competes much better.
riogrande5761 I think Rapido even admitted they bit off more than they could chew with this run of SW1200's.
I can see how that can apply to the detailing for each road and the research it takes to get it right.
But.
I wonder how that applies to the gap under the exhaust stacks and the giant cut levers.
7j43k riogrande5761 I think Rapido even admitted they bit off more than they could chew with this run of SW1200's. I can see how that can apply to the detailing for each road and the research it takes to get it right. But. I wonder how that applies to the gap under the exhaust stacks and the giant cut levers. Ed
Do you think the front end handrails have a slightly larger diameter than the side handrails? Almost not even high-end fine.
Not just in this review, but Google pics of these SP units and it looks like it to me. Could be the angle though.
I wonder if the ends are also made of wire, like the side handrails.
Doughless 7j43k riogrande5761 I think Rapido even admitted they bit off more than they could chew with this run of SW1200's. I can see how that can apply to the detailing for each road and the research it takes to get it right. But. I wonder how that applies to the gap under the exhaust stacks and the giant cut levers. Ed Do you think the front end handrails have a slightly larger diameter than the side handrails? Almost not even high-end fine. Not just in this review, but Google pics of these SP units and it looks like it to me. Could be the angle though. I wonder if the ends are also made of wire, like the side handrails.
Yes.
The end railings are cast, as are the lift levers. Using the white paint makes it much worse, as the white needs to be pretty thick to cover.
I must admit that I have been impressed by the SP units. But SP switchers do not fit anywhere in my modeling world, so I have not pulled the trigger.
As for slow speed, I have an old Athearn SW7 with an Ernst regear kit that walks and pulls like nothing else. It also growls without the need for a sound system.
I have three Atlas S2s that are smooth as silk.
Tin Can IIAs for slow speed, I have an old Athearn SW7 with an Ernst regear kit that walks and pulls like nothing else. It also growls without the need for a sound system.
That's a blast from the past.
I am disappointed with the Rapido SP version of the SW1200. As some have said, for the price they dropped the ball on it. This is not Genesis level fidelity but a Genesis level price.
I believe I have a four-axle Ernst gear kit put away somewhere for an Athearn switcher at some point.
They sure do improved switcher low speed operation.
-Kevin