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Athearn Genesis F3s-dummy B Units?

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Athearn Genesis F3s-dummy B Units?
Posted by Mjorstad on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 10:32 AM

I just bought an A-B set of what I think are Athearn Genesis F7s. The A unit is powered but it seems the B Unit is a dummy unpowered unit. Is this the typical setup for Athearn Genesis A-B pairs? Will they come in different variations? Or maybe I'm mistaken, and this pair isn't a Genesis model (which is what I'm trying to confirm)? What have you all found?

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 10:36 AM

Mjorstad

I just bought an A-B set of what I think are Athearn Genesis F7s. The A unit is powered but it seems the B Unit is a dummy unpowered unit. Is this the typical setup for Athearn Genesis A-B pairs? Will they come in different variations? Or maybe I'm mistaken, and this pair isn't a Genesis model (which is what I'm trying to confirm)? What have you all found? 

Think?  Are they not branded and in Athearn Genesis boxes?  I am not aware that Athearn has ever offered Genesis dummy units ever.  OTOH, Stewart Hobbies definitely has offered F units in A-B sets where the B unit is a dummy.  At one time I had several of these sets.

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 12:58 PM

riogrande5761
I am not aware that Athearn has ever offered Genesis dummy units ever.

I've never come across a Genesis dummy, either.

Add Broadway Limited to the list of importers that have featured dummy B units, at least some of the A-B sets of the Baldwin Sharknose featured a dummy B unit.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by wjstix on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 3:05 PM

"Blue Box" (older, less detailed) Athearn F-units are often sold as an A-B sets with the A powered and the B a dummy. I don't know if Genesis units have ever been made that way? You'll know if they're Genesis bodies because of the added-on handrails and grabirons and more accurate detailing. A photo of the engines (inside too) would help.

 

Stix
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Posted by John-NYBW on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 6:05 PM

Athearn BB used to offer dummy F-7 B-units but unless somebody did some serious upgrading, I don't think an Athearn BB would ever be confused with a Genesis. I have Genesis F-3 AB set but both locos are powered. 

DrW
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Posted by DrW on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 7:13 PM

Actually, Atharn Genesis did produce dummy F units, although it probably happened only once. One of their first F unit offerings was an F7 ABBA set for the Walthers Santa Fe "Super Chief". One AB pair was powered (product #99041), the other AB pair was unpowered (#99042).

JW

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Posted by John-NYBW on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 9:38 PM

A few years ago I started a thread asking why dummy units were so scarce. As I recall it came down to economix. In the 1980s and earlier lots of them were being produced because the price of DC locos was not that high due to generic production without lots of details. Now, models are being produced that are prototype specific and have lots of fine detail. It just isn't profitable enough to do that for a dummy loco.

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Posted by Autonerd on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 11:21 PM

If you can attach a photo, we can probably figure out who made 'em.

Aaron

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 7:14 AM

DrW

Actually, Atharn Genesis did produce dummy F units, although it probably happened only once. One of their first F unit offerings was an F7 ABBA set for the Walthers Santa Fe "Super Chief". One AB pair was powered (product #99041), the other AB pair was unpowered (#99042).

That type is approach requires a careful cost analysis to determine if it is really worthwhile to purchase a dummy (unpowered) AB pair. The dummy A-unit would only be useful as the second A-unit in a consist (e.g., ABBA or AA). Unless there were a significant price difference between a powered AB consist and an unpowered AB consist, I would opt for two powered AB consists, so that I would have more options in running A-units separately.

Rich

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DrW
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Posted by DrW on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 9:01 AM

richhotrain

 

 
DrW

Actually, Atharn Genesis did produce dummy F units, although it probably happened only once. One of their first F unit offerings was an F7 ABBA set for the Walthers Santa Fe "Super Chief". One AB pair was powered (product #99041), the other AB pair was unpowered (#99042).

 

 

That type is approach requires a careful cost analysis to determine if it is really worthwhile to purchase a dummy (unpowered) AB pair. The dummy A-unit would only be useful as the second A-unit in a consist (e.g., ABBA or AA). Unless there were a significant price difference between a powered AB consist and an unpowered AB consist, I would opt for two powered AB consists, so that I would have more options in running A-units separately.

 

Rich

 

In general, I agree with your approach. In this specific case, however, if you are a stickler for prototypical accuracy and wanted an ABBA set for your "Super Chief", you had to buy one set of each. There were subtle differences between both A units (one had "47" on the number board, the other "47C") and both B units (one had a tiny black "47A" at one end of the red stripe, the other "47B").

JW

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 9:23 AM

DrW
 
richhotrain 
DrW

Actually, Atharn Genesis did produce dummy F units, although it probably happened only once. One of their first F unit offerings was an F7 ABBA set for the Walthers Santa Fe "Super Chief". One AB pair was powered (product #99041), the other AB pair was unpowered (#99042). 

That type is approach requires a careful cost analysis to determine if it is really worthwhile to purchase a dummy (unpowered) AB pair. The dummy A-unit would only be useful as the second A-unit in a consist (e.g., ABBA or AA). Unless there were a significant price difference between a powered AB consist and an unpowered AB consist, I would opt for two powered AB consists, so that I would have more options in running A-units separately. 

Rich 

In general, I agree with your approach. In this specific case, however, if you are a stickler for prototypical accuracy and wanted an ABBA set for your "Super Chief", you had to buy one set of each. There were subtle differences between both A units (one had "47" on the number board, the other "47C") and both B units (one had a tiny black "47A" at one end of the red stripe, the other "47B").

JW 

Yeah, I could see where that could be a problem where you wind up with two or more of the locos in a consist with the same road number. 

I have that situation with two of my locos, both powered F3A units, one with sound and one without from Intermountain. I just learned to live with it.

Rich

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 11:16 AM

Athearn does - or at least, did until very recently - still offer "blue box" F7s in A-B sets with one powered and one dummy. They're currently re-doing the "blue box" engines to have an improved motor and 21-pin receptacle, so we'll have to see if they do that in the future or not. Of course, you can always swap the dummy chassis for a powered one to have two powered engines.

I think the issue with dummies not being made as much now is just that they're not needed. Before DCC it could be very hard to get two engines to start, run, and stop together without a lot of work with resistors or re-gearing etc. Since real railroads generally run multiple engines on mainline trains, it was easier just to run one powered engine and a dummy. Sound wasn't a thing then either so it wasn't all that noticeable that one was a dummy.

Stix
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Posted by John-NYBW on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 1:31 PM

wjstix

Athearn does - or at least, did until very recently - still offer "blue box" F7s in A-B sets with one powered and one dummy. They're currently re-doing the "blue box" engines to have an improved motor and 21-pin receptacle, so we'll have to see if they do that in the future or not. Of course, you can always swap the dummy chassis for a powered one to have two powered engines.

I think the issue with dummies not being made as much now is just that they're not needed. Before DCC it could be very hard to get two engines to start, run, and stop together without a lot of work with resistors or re-gearing etc. Since real railroads generally run multiple engines on mainline trains, it was easier just to run one powered engine and a dummy. Sound wasn't a thing then either so it wasn't all that noticeable that one was a dummy.

 

Unless Athearn completely redesigned the coupler pockets on their BB diesels, I'm not the least bit interested. 

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Posted by Mjorstad on Thursday, April 1, 2021 12:57 PM

Hey all, appreciate the information and feedback. I didn't have the engines shipped in their original boxes, which is why I wasn't able to tell initially; however, they did include an instruction manual, which had no kind of labeling indicating it was a Genesis locomotive. So it appears what I have must be a Blue Box or RTR with DCC added. I'll send some photos for some final thoughts, but I'm returning the locomotive anyway. 

(if anyone knows where I can find some Genesis MoPac F3s though, let me know-I'm back on the market! Smile, Wink & Grin )

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Posted by bagal on Saturday, January 15, 2022 3:14 AM

As alluded to above there were unpowered A and B;

Athearn Genesis 99041A F-7A Phase 2 – Santa Fe ATSF 47L, Powered DCC Athearn Genesis 99041B F-7B Phase 2 – Santa Fe ATSF 47A, Powered DCC Athearn Genesis 99042A F-7A Phase 2 – Santa Fe ATSF 47B, Non powered Athearn Genesis 99042B F-7C Phase 2 – Santa Fe ATSF 47C, Non powered

bagal

 

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Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, January 15, 2022 5:23 AM

My Athearn Genesis F-3 AB set has both units powered. They are New York Central 3500 & 3600. I was not aware they made a dummy unit. About ten years ago I started a thread asking why the manufacturers seemed to have quit making dummy units. The answer I got is that there was no money to be made. Dummy units were quite common back in the Athearn BB days but I don't see them at all any more. I did buy a dummy NYC E-7 unit about 15 years ago but I can't remember who made it. It is a noticeably lighter shade of gray than my Walthers powered E-units. 

Yesterday, I was organizing my storage shelves and I came across several chassis of Athearn BB dummy F units. I only remembered having bought one for my old DC layout but apparently I had acquired several. I'm thinking of painting some of my old shells for my new fictional railroad and putting them on the roster. To me F-units just look better when paired than when running as single units. I remember when F-units were common motive power and I usually saw them in 3 and 4 unit lash ups. 

UPDATE: I just noticed this is an old thread that got resurrected. I had already commented on it last year and don't even remember doing so. That's what happens after you turn 70 I guess.

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