cajon kidd and the new generation

[Anonymous]

Well was looking back as far as I could stand to go and this post is very related to the subject I would like to discuss. Is it just me or is the pricing and availability of this hobby starting to get a little nuts. Am considering getting started on a good size layout in HO. But the availability and prices are starting to make me wonder. Have also done RC flying and while the prices there seem to be really droping compared to say ten years ago I am confused. And it will sure make it hard for the next generation of kids to stay interested when a locomotive and five cars cost two hundred dollars or more. As an adult price is not that big an issue for me. I can invest the money for what I want to do easily. But lets take Athearn for an example. Looks like they either cut Walthers out as a distributor or for some reason Walthers does not want to deal with them anymore. And I can see why. Looked at Athearns site earlier but most stuff is now discontinued or temporarily out of production. Well that tellms me a lot. Almost looks to me like they are trying to limit production to drive up prices. And raising prices at the same time. Maybe it is just me but capitalism in this country is starting to look like something else. Think it could be the greed of a few? I have been a model railroder for over twenty years and a real railroader for over ten. Let me know your thoughts.

[ericsp]

Walthers no long carries Athearn because another distributor, Horizon Hobby, bought Athearn, the same is true for Roundhouse/MDC. Prices are going up because it seems like most people have become extreme rivet counters. I have seem many posts on here that lead me to believe that many model railroaders do not care if a product costs an arm and a leg, as long as it is highly detailed. I find a high detail bottom side of a car to be almost comical. Although the polls on this forum tend to indicate that more people still prefer kits (I do), many manufacturers are offering RTR in addiition to kits or exclusively. While the RTR is not more expensive than some kits, in other cases it is almost twice as much (Athearn).

[Anonymous]

Prices going up is not a good thing for attracting younger modellers. There's been a lot in the news over here of late about Hornby sales climbing, however I do wonder how much of that is due to older people who, having retired, decide to start modelling again (as opposed to the youth market). The major problems with this will occur when the current generation of older modellers are forced to leave the hobby, either due to failing eyesight or sheer old age - who will take over?

I agree that the constant efforts to make models more detailed is pushing up prices (though the extra detailing is worth the money to my mind). However, there are sensibly-priced models out there for beginners. Walther's new Heavyweight passenger cars would not be suitable for a beginner's 4x8, but they also offer 60' Heavyweights in their Trainline range that would be perfect - they don't look as though they have much less detailing than the longer cars and the prices are considerably lower. Bachmann's new DCC system will also appeal to new modellers due to its simplicity and low price.

The fact that many of Athearn's Blue Box kits have now been discontinued in favour of RTR (essentially the same model factory assembled and sold at around twice the price!) cannot be good for beginners. These simple, robust locos and cars have featured in pretty much every modeller's HO work at some point, and are especially attractive to new modellers due to the combination of low price, easy assembly, and the fact that the finished product still looks pretty decent despite advances since they were first tooled up. When I started in HO in 2001, it was possible to buy Athearn locos for around £30 or so. Now the supply of Blue Box equipment at my LHS has all but dried up, there are only two sub-£40 locos available (Walthers GP9 and FA1) and it seems to be necessary to budget around £40-£50 for a loco (around $80-$90 if I remember the exchange rate correctly). While the quality of that loco is far higher than the older models (comparing Proto 1K RS11s with Athearn SD9s here!) the extra price may well push it out of the reach of younger people - I can remember saving for several weeks aged 11 to buy an N-scale switcher that cost £20, £47 worth of diesel was a daydream for me back then!

To conclude, this can be an expensive hobby, but it doesn't have to be. There seem to be a host of discount mail-order suppliers out there offering decent models at ludicrously low prices, and there are decent, new, cheap models coming through - Bachmann's range has really improved of late and there are some very good models in there considering how cheap they are. I suspect the real problem is still public perception - kids don't like to admit being modellers as it tends to get them bullied at school (I know this from first-hand experience!), and as they get older it's seen as "playing with toys" by many outside observers. Interesting how someone spending £500 on designer clothing (that will probably be worn just once) is considered cool, yet someone spending the same amount on a model that will last for years is not... Just my thoughts!

[ericsp]

Locomotives are about the only Blue Box items Athearn is currently producing. Maybe you will need to special order or find another supplier for locomotives if you want to continue to buy Blue Box. One of the hobby shops in my area jsut got some SW1500s, SW1000s, GP7s, and F7s in. I have been looking for a CSXT SD40-2, so I checked Horizon Hobby's website, they say it should be available some time this month.
http://www.athearn.com/
http://www.athearn.com/Media/2005kits.pdf
http://www.athearn.com/Media/2004kits.pdf
http://www.horizonhobby.com/

By the way, I see the 2005 Blue Box schedule is out. I just looked at it. While locomotives dominated the 2004 production, there are none on the 2005 production list. There are 57' reefers, I can't wait until they come out.

[Anonymous]

Well after reading the replys here and doing some searching on the web I am really begining to wonder about this hobby. Sure looks to me like Athearn is trying to force prices to go up out there. All the online hobby shops I looked at have none of there stuff left in stock. One item I was looking for must be worth it's weight in gold now. Could not find a single BN 62' fuel tender. And another funny one. Was planning on buying a bombardier set of two coaches and a cab in the Trinity Regional Express scheme that runs between Dallas and Ft Worth TX. Not listed in the Athearn catalouge, or any of the hobby shops online except for one. Now who has any idea what is up with that one? I know when the release came out in Model Railroader that it was on of the paint schemes. Now is no where to be found except at the one hobby shop in FL had it listed as in stock. Personaly for all us modelers I think this is a pretty interesting subject. Compared to the last time I was heavily into HO trains it looks to me like I am either gonna have to be rich so I can preorder everything the minute I see info on it or else an Indianna Jones to find it after it has been released. Want one of the rerun 3985 Challengers and that is gonna be a hell of a lucky thing if I get one. And the release is not till June 2005. Hope I get a lot more replys on this one. Am starting to think after Athearn being one of my favorite sources for years, they won't be anymore.

[Anonymous]

Two more things to add while I am at it. What is with all this John Deere and Coca Cola crap. And thirty five dollars reatil for one covered hopper!!!!!! Yea I can see Hobbyhorizon is gonna make all the right moves for serious model railroaders!

P.S. If anyone happenes to come across that Athearn Burlington Northern 62' Fuel Tender let me know so I can order it from them. Thanks, GW

[Anonymous]

I agree with all of you that the rising prices are not good for the hobby. However, Horizon is just shooting themselvs in the foot, and I serously doubt in three or 4 years they will be a viable player in the model railroad market. Unfortunatly they may take MDC and Athearn with them when they do. Unfortunatly there is no organzied movement afoot to protest these actions and I think us kit builders are in a rapidly growing minority. I predict in 5 years there will be articles in rewiring DCC only locos for DC control and every concievable prototype will be avialable in Plastic Ready to Run. Starting at $19.95.

One bright spot. Cost of Scratchbuilding supplies are remaining pretty stable.

And one final thought. Being 22 years old. When all you older guys pass on, I can probably pick your trains up for cheap. :)

James.

[ericsp]

I agree that Athearn does seem to be keeping supplies low of RTR and espicially Genesis items. I remember that the Walthers website listed the 8' and 6' pulg door PCF RBLs as sold out before the date they had listed as being released. Horizon Hobbies also lists almost all as sold out, yet they do not seem to be interested in having more made even though they appeared to be popular. They were also $5 more than the 60' excess height, double plug door boxcars. Could they have really cost $5 more to design and/or produce? I suppose it is possible, but I have a hard time believing it.

However, remember Athearn has always been a batch producer. I remember looking for a Southern Pacific auto parts are from 1990 to 1996. So, cars being out of production for a few years is not something new.

[Jetrock]

About the "returning model railroaders": It seems, if this board is any indication, that a lot of the folks returning to the model-railroading aspect of the hobby are, like myself, folks in their 30's--Generation X folks, not retiring boomers.

Folks my age probably had Tyco HO sets in the Seventies, rather than the boomers' American Flyer and Lionel sets--thus we're more drawn to HO and smaller "modeling" scales instead of tinplate. And, so far as I can tell, this tends to be the group that often asks for detail (because we grew up with more of a model-railroad focus than the colorful, toylike tinplate) as well as RTR (because we're still working and raising kids and may not have time to devote to scratchbuilding.) And because we're pretty much in our thirties and forties, we'll probably still be around buying stuff for another thirty years or so. At which point the 8-10 year olds who are getting hooked on trains due to Thomas and "Polar Express" and the return of railroading to the public eye will be the age we are now, and probably griping about how they can't get their Dad's creaky old Proto 2000 antiques to run as smoothly as the new wireless superconducting motors...

[Anonymous]

Well I hope the responses keep coming. Maybe we can start a movement Student. And you are right about the pricing too ericsp. Something fishy is going on in Athearn land and the rest of these manufacturers I think. Now we all know that no bussiness gives away stuff for free. For instance, lets take the next release of Athearns UP Challenger. No if I remember correctly MSRP is around five or six hundred dollars US. Then why are dealers offering it for under three? Maybe it is just me but it is like I said when I started this post. Is funny how RC redy to flys are getting so cheap and they have to be somewhat labor intensive. And Hobby Horizon is big in that bussiness. So how can they put balsa planes together so cheap and yet a plastic molded loco with maybe a couple dozen detail parts cost so much. And sure, the molds are not cheap. But of you are gonna run a few thousand items and then discontinue it sure someone is gonna have to pay for that. So why the seemingly such short runs. HEY, LETS START THAT MOVEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jetrock]

Well, start it soon...the older generation of model railroaders generally needs a good dose of Metamucil to start a movement!

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gwallace54

Well I hope the responses keep coming. Maybe we can start a movement Student. And you are right about the pricing too ericsp. Something fishy is going on in Athearn land and the rest of these manufacturers I think.!

Yes, it appears as though some companies may be purposly producting insufficient quantities of cars to meet demands. However, there is much relevant information that we do not know, there we cannot be certain this is what is going on.

[Anonymous]

No student ya can't cause I am taking em with me to that great layout in the sky. And jet I am a boomer and been into railroading one way or another all my life from being raised in a railroad town namely Cleburne, TX to working on two different railroads for over ten years being the AT&SF and the C&NW. You guys couldn't keep up with us old timers in the ballast. :-) Just kidding, but anyway, on with my little dramatic saga here. Doing more research today, found an interesting little tidbit, to me anyway. All thes suppliers driving up prices. Then we have the UP adding that extra five bucks to all the roadnames they have absorbed. Where is it gonna all stop lol. Gotta keep smiling ya know. But low and behold it gets even worse. Now all these years, which is a lot lets just say. What do you think benifeited UP more. All that free advertising and good will they used to get from boys and girls growing up remembering their first Christmas train set was Union Pacific, or all the time and money they will waste chasing mom and pop small bussiness down to collect their small licensing fee. Which by the way, if it goes by percent judging from what I am really talking about here, may add up to a lot more than I think. Anyway, for my extra little added tidbit now. I come to find out that the reason, if no one here knows about it that you will not even find Bombardier equipment and F59PHI locomotives even listed as dicontinued in Trinity Rail Express is because the TRE flat denied Athearn to use there trademark. Pretty soon hobbiest and little kids won't have anything to play with cause the big corporations won't allow us. I am smelling something pretty stinking around here. Anyway, enough of my maniacal ranting for today. Hey, it was just a forum, then next thing ya know it was a................

[Anonymous]

bowel "movement"! Thanks for the metamucial Jetrock

Oops forgot to capitalize that. Probably be in trouble with my licensing now.

[Anonymous]

Well I am trying to do a good job of researching my complaint as it were. I wrote and email to the TRE this morning to see the reason they would not allow Athearn to model their equipment. Next I am gonna look more into Hooby Horizons purchase of Athearn and why supplies are being limited so. Thanks for ataying in tune all. Gary

[Anonymous]

Well I don't know if you can believe everything or anything on the internet for that matter. Here is where I found the info about Tinity Rail Express first. http://www.winwaed.com/rail/TRE/tre.shtml

And here is what I heard from TRE via email.

Richard,

I do not believe that the T and DART would not "allow Athearn
manufacturing to model equipment in the TRE livery." Athearn
voluntarily surrendered its license agreement to manufacture the
products.

Another group is negotiating with the transit authorities for a
manufacturing licence. However, since a contract has not been
finalized, I am not at liberty to disclose their identity.

Sylvia Hartless
817-215-8702

[Anonymous]

Also see topic Rising prices in industry. Must be a popular subject these days. Am I wrong.