Hello all. I'm a fan of the old railroads along the Front Range and in the Cripple Creek District here in Colorado, and I was wondering if any company large or small has ever made a 2-8-2 in HO scale of, or that resembles, Midland Terminal 62 and 63? Preferably something that won't break the bank if anything like these engines is available. They were built by Brookes for the Copper River & Northwestern in the 1910s, and were bought by the MT in 1940. Here's a link to a photo of MT 62: https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/53590/rec/188 and MT 63 https://digital.denverlibrary.org/digital/collection/p15330coll22/id/53597/rec/194 Just curious as to what might be out there and what to keep an eye out for. Thanks in advance.
Those are unusual and small 2-8-2s, and indeed at first glance I thought I was seeing 2-8-0s, the trailing truck is just sort of crammed in there. Some lumber company 2-8-2 had that same look of a consolidation with something extra so to speak. The Mantua 2-8-2 is just too long and big although having said that if the pilot and trailing truck were discarded and replaced with something tighter and closer to the drivers, there might be something that could be done, maybe using the strange version of the 2-8-2 power chassis that Mantua tried to stick their Pacific boiler on.
So I would explore that idea of a fairly small 2-8-0 that might have enough room for a trailing truck to be added. Model Die Casting had a smallish 2-8-0 but I am not sure it has enough room. The old Varney/Bowser "Old Lady" 2-8-0 metal kit might have some promise but the boiler seems less robust than this locomotive you show. Even the old Tyco "Chattanooga Choo Choo" engine (which as I recall had a sort of enlongated USRA 0-8-0 boiler) might be kitbash fodder again depending on how "sort of close enough for me" you are willing to be to save money.
Dave Nelson
dknelsonThose are unusual and small 2-8-2s, and indeed at first glance I thought I was seeing 2-8-0s, the trailing truck is just sort of crammed in there...
I agree about their size, Dave, but the first thing which sprang to mind for me was the boiler assembly of Bachmann's Russian Decapod.
The chunky-looking tenders from Bachmann's 10 Wheelers might be a good starting point, with a bit of modification, to match the real ones.
Wayne
It looks like a 2-6-2 with smaller drivers.
This could be a good starting pont, but it would be a lot of work.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Im not sure why but I found this amazing kitbash job using an MDC roundhouse 2-8-0 looked fairly similar:
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16854
It has bigger wheels but the boiler looks to be a proper size. Use a Bachmann 2-10-0 chassis without the last wheel, lower the boiler, add a third dome, use a mantua cab, add a trailing truck and youve got yourself a pretty close engine.
Edit: Maybe use a Bachmann 2-8-0 boiler instead as this one^ is tapered.
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Wow! I'm surprised that there isn't really much of anything out there that resembles them, since not all Mikados are/were USRA designs The only potential candidate I've ever come across is the China Railways SY class, but models of them are hard to find, especially at a price that I'm comfortable paying. So, I figured that I'd see if anything else might be out there. Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
The Broadway Limited Light Mikado kind of resembles the prototype, and with a little bit of work, like repositioning the headlight, replacing the dome, and changing/adding detail parts might work. But then again, they aren't cheap.
All the best!
"No one realizes how beautiful it is to travel until he comes home and rests his head on his old, familiar pillow." -Lin Yutang
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Wolf359 Wow! I'm surprised that there isn't really much of anything out there that resembles them, since not all Mikados are/were USRA designs The only potential candidate I've ever come across is the China Railways SY class, but models of them are hard to find, especially at a price that I'm comfortable paying. So, I figured that I'd see if anything else might be out there. Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
from colorado springs ?? the roundhouse is still around if i remember correctly on 8th street ?? i lived in the springs for a few years .
thomas81zis this the railroad that ran thru the tunnels on range road from colorado springs ?? the roundhouse is still around if i remember correctly on 8th street ??
Yes, the Midland Terminal was the northern route into Cripple Creek. Several of the tunnels, etc are part of the highway route in now.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Your mention of the Chinese SY class is on point - the Midland Terminal engine has that same looks as if the boiler was sort was squashed down onto the frame, not unlike the look of the narrow gauge K36 and K37 Mikados.
Which makes me wonder if there are other non-American prototypes for which an HO model, maybe a junker, not be a starting point for a conversion. A new cab and smokebox front can do wonders ....
http://www.railography.co.uk/info/cn_steam/profiles/sy.htm
"The SY is derived from the Japanese-built Mi Ka Ro design introduced to China by the Japanese occupiers in 1934 "
"The Mi Ka Ro was itself based on a series of ALCo locomotives supplied to Japanese-occupied Korea in the 1920s."
http://www.chinesemodeltrains.com/encyclopedia_sy.html Bachmann China SY
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
Upon further analysis, I have also concluded that the Bachmann China JF (Jiefang, or Liberation) class could also work, as it's tender and wheel arrangement also resemble the prototype.
The JF class came before the SY class by three decades and was basically a continuation of the Mi Ka Ro pattern. (In fact, many locomotives that comprised the class were South Manchuria Railway veterans with the Japanese features like builders plates, etc removed)
JF Class: Bachmann index page refers Inam JF for review
http://www.chinesemodeltrains.com/encyclopedia_jf.html
This is definitely either a brass model or a kitbash. In the latter case, I would work with a Roundhouse (or Athearn) oldtimer 2-8-0. The Bachman 2-8-0 is another option. The Roundhouse is a lot simpler in design - I would opt for that one.
It sure would be sweet looking... Reminds me of the narrow gauge Mikados.
Simon
MT 62 and 63 won't be a match, dimensionally speaking, for a lot of the kits that are available on the market - the engines themselves are much more comparable to logging or light-use engines than they are to the dimensions of most 63"-drivered Mikados. The MT engines had, IIRC, 52" drivers, which are going to be significantly smaller than anything you would find on a USRA engine (or most other large-run diecast commercial 2-8-2 models, for that matter).
The model that probably comes closest in both general dimensional data and in appearance is an SP MK-10 Mikado. SP inherited a pair of them from a previous owner, and West Side did a brass model of them; I have one, and bought it specifically because it was the closest thing I could find to MT 62 and 63 (61 is another matter entirely).
If you do a Google search for SP MK-10 2-8-2, you can easily find photos of the WSM model. It will require some modification and a tender swap, but that will be easier than almost any other option.
http://mprailway.blogspot.com
"The first transition era - wood to steel!"
Thanks everyone. You've definitely given me some options to think about and look for.
MidlandPacific (61 is another matter entirely).
(61 is another matter entirely).
It's funny you should mention MT 61. Bachmann's current version of the 2-8-0 is an almost perfect match for MT 61 in my opinion, and I've been watching a few on ebay the last few days with that in mind, so matching MT 61 would definitely be easier for me.
MidlandPacificThe MT engines had, IIRC, 52" drivers, which are going to be significantly smaller than anything you would find on a USRA engine (or most other large-run diecast commercial 2-8-2 models, for that matter).
Smaller than that, actually. The two Copper River and Northwestern engines (later MT 62 1nd 63) had 48" driver and a 13.5 foot rigid wheelbase. The ex-Chincago and Illinois 2-8-0 (briefly and unsatisfactorly) a 2-8-2 with the MT had 51 inch crivers on a 14.25 foot rigid wheelbase. I have not tried moodeling any of these engines. The MT found that the three surplus ATC 0-6-0 converted to 2-6-0 engines had better drawbar pull and were rated for higher tonnage than any of the engines they already owned. These would be easy to model from a suitable USRA 0-6-0.
thomas81zis this the railroad that ran thru the tunnels on gold camp road from colorado springs ?? the roundhouse is still around if i remember correctly on 8th street ?? i lived in the springs for a few years .
The Gold Camp road was the old right-of-way for the Colorado Springs and Cripple Creek Distrct Ry. The roundhouse was originally built by the Colorado Midland Ry., and sold to the Midand Terminal When the CM liquidated its assets in 1921. That's the uncomplicated account!
Northwest Shortline (NWSL) produced some small brass Mikado's back in the 70's.
The Rayonier #70 looks close, just need to swap out the steam cylinders.
HO Scale: NWSL 2-8-2 Rayonier, CH-1665X (trainmaster.ch)
Dan
OFF topic)
WOW! Pocket Mikados. Its gotta be my bad eyes but does the main driver on #63 look blind? It cant be! A blind main driver? Yeah, has to be me thats blind. Yall see that too?
PMR
Sorry to revive this old thread but, Midland Terminal 61 is an oddball locomotive. It was built as a 2-8-0 Consolidation for the Buffalo & Susquehanna, but was never deliverd to that line was it went kaput. Sometime during it's lifespan, it got a trailing truck turning it into a 2-8-2. It went from the Chicago & Illinios Midland to the Colorado Midland Terminal (no relation other than name) during it's life. It's sister locomotive from the "B&S Orphans" Tooele Valley Railway 11 is still around on display in Utah.
I have seen some brass 2-8-0's that kind of resemble 11 floating around, your best bet to model 61. I wish I knew what brass model it was in particular so I could point you to it, but if you see one; buy it then find a way to slap a trailing truck on it to get the accurate Midland Terminal 61 look. I have no advice on what to do with the other Midland Terminal Mikados like 62 and 63 already mentioned in the thread.
I don't have my copy of Mel McFarland's book on the Midland Terminal handy, but IIRC, the Colorado City ship force added (and may have subsequently removed) 61's trailing truck. It was unusual for it's time by in being an onboard trailing truck and in being very small. To my inexpert eye, it also looks much closer to the rear drivers than is typically the case, but I believe it was added to reduce the likelihood of derailments when backing, rather than the more usual function of supporting the firebox. My recollection is that it wasn't a successful modification, and was removed at some point.
Not sure what engine I would recommend you bash into 61, but you would need a very small wheelset, perhaps 26-28 scale inches in diameter for the truck.
i have a recent limited run HO Brass 2-6-2 Baldwin Logging Mallet, but it will definately break the bank, even if your are lucky engough to find one on the web for sale. I suggest researching older brass train retailers, of which there are several, otherwise maybe Bachman or Mantua. Good luck, BT NJ
MidlandPacific I don't have my copy of Mel McFarland's book on the Midland Terminal handy, but IIRC, the Colorado City ship force added (and may have subsequently removed) 61's trailing truck. It was unusual for it's time by in being an onboard trailing truck and in being very small. To my inexpert eye, it also looks much closer to the rear drivers than is typically the case, but I believe it was added to reduce the likelihood of derailments when backing, rather than the more usual function of supporting the firebox. My recollection is that it wasn't a successful modification, and was removed at some point. Not sure what engine I would recommend you bash into 61, but you would need a very small wheelset, perhaps 26-28 scale inches in diameter for the truck.
Tooele Valley Railway 12 showing the 2-8-0 configuration
There were a lot of odd engines out there, some of which a photo may not be available. These were modified in local shops to meet needs or weird repairs. There is one engine out there now that when restored they rebuilt the cow catcher to a modification of one point in its life.
I actually have both of Mr. McFarland's books on the original Colorado Midland and the Midland Terminal. (Love both of them, along with the Rev. Cafky's big book on the CM) You're correct, the MT added the trailing truck to 61 to try and cure a derailment problem when backing. It apparently didn't work that well, since it was removed after a couple of years. I actually did model 61, I found that Bachmann's Baldwin 2-8-0 was a pretty good match for it, so I found a secondhand one in decent shape to reletter as MT 61. The drivers are a tad larger, but that's OK.