Walthers HO Proto 2000 0-6-0 - Swapping Tenders?

[Shock Control]

It appears that there is an electrical connection between the locomotive and tender.

Does the locomotive draw power from the wheels of the tender, or is the tender responsible for the audio?

I'm really not interested in the audio.  I'm curious if I can run one of these with a sloped tender from a different manufacturer.

Alternately, I would like to know if Walthers sells or sold a sloped tender that could go with this unit.   

[BigDaddy]

I think in general the tender picks up one side of the tracks - the engine, the other.  As there is more space in the tender, the decoder and speaker are usually located there. 

My steam is all Bachmann and they have their own connector.  With sufficient soldering skills and steady hands you can change connectors.  That wouldn't be me.

[Shock Control]

Thanks.  So as the vintage Mantua sloped tenders pick up power from the tracks, it sounds like I could use one of these.  

[gmpullman]

Here's a look at the tender floor with a rather hefty die-cast weight and, in my case, a WOWsound decoder:

L-L_0-8-0b by Edmund, on Flickr

If you wanted a slope-back body I would try to find one that could slip over this frame/chassis and retain the Life-like parts.

Shock Control

It appears that there is an electrical connection between the locomotive and tender.

Yes, in fact this is also the "drawbar".

Shock Control

Does the locomotive draw power from the wheels of the tender, or is the tender responsible for the audio?

Sound is a retrofit. AFAIK L-L did not offer sound. There is no provision for a downward-firing speaker. TCS recommends drilling holes in the coal load to let the sound molecules out.

Early models did not have tender truck pickup. The second runs did. All 8 wheels, not just "one side of the track".

Shock Control

Alternately, I would like to know if Walthers sells or sold a sloped tender that could go with this unit.

None that I was aware of.

Good Luck, Ed

[tstage]

gmpullman

Sound is a retrofit. AFAIK L-L did not offer sound.

Ed,

I could be wrong but I thought some of the older LL Proto 2000 0-8-0s came with a QSI decoder?  I don't know if that was available for both the 1st run and 2nd runs, or just the 2nd run.

Tom

[Edit: Verified from the Walthers website that the LL Proto 0-8-0s did come with sound.  Haven't been able to identify the decoder manufacturer though.]

[Pruitt]

I have two of each of the first runs. The 0-6-0's have tender pickups. The 0-8-0's do not.

 

[richhotrain]

tstage

 

gmpullman

Sound is a retrofit. AFAIK L-L did not offer sound. 

Ed,

I could be wrong but I thought some of the older LL Proto 2000 0-8-0s came with a QSI decoder?  I don't know if that was available for both the 1st run and 2nd runs, or just the 2nd run.

Tom

[Edit: Verified from the Walthers website that the LL Proto 0-8-0s did come with sound.  Haven't been able to identify the decoder manufacturer though.] 

There are a couple on eBay. The Proto 2000 Heritage 0-8-0 came equipped with a Tsunami TSU-1000 digital sound decoder.

Rich

[tstage]

Rich, I think the Tsunami's became available on the Proto 0-8-0s AFTER Walthers acquired Life-Like - whenever that was.

And I managed to locate an MR forum thread from 2005 that seems to verify that the QSI decoder was used in the Life Like P2K 0-8-0s:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/49327.aspx

Okay, I'm off the rabbit trail now...

Tom

 

[gmpullman]

Hence my disclaimer as far as I know.

Now I know even farther. It was a bad call on my part. Sorry.

0-8-0s did not have tender pickups but the 0-6-0s did? I had two of each. One 0-6-0 had pickups and the other didn't. One 0-8-0 had pickups and the other did not.

I'm going to say that the Life-Like USRA switcher went through several changes over its life span.

And I'm going to say Walthers continued to make changes after they bought the remains of Life-Like and branded it as their own.

https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2002/11/life-likes-proto-2000-ho-usra-0-6-0-steam-switcher

 Extracted from that review:

The tender can't be judged by that drawing since it doesn't represent the USRA 8,000-gallon design supplied with these engines. Many railroads modified or replaced the original tenders, and the model's flat-topped tank and narrow fuel bunker are typical of a number of switch engine tenders. The high coal bunker shown is one of four options used to make the models closer to individual prototypes. The others are a similar high coal bunker but with a sloping rear sheet, a low-sided coal bunker, and an oil bunker.

Underscore added. The tender shown in the 2002 MR review does not have wheel pickups. 

Cheers, Ed

 

[richhotrain]

tstage

Rich, I think the Tsunami's became available on the Proto 0-8-0s AFTER Walthers acquired Life-Like - whenever that was.

And I managed to locate an MR forum thread from 2005 that seems to verify that the QSI decoder was used in the Life Like P2K 0-8-0s

The eBay listing that I referred to was for the Proto 2000 Heritage in the red box, but it was for a "pre-owned" loco with Tsunami TSU-1 installed. So, I guess the seller installed the Tsunami after market.

Rich

[tstage]

Rich,

I believe I saw that one (with the aftermark installation) and was wondering if that was the one you were referring to.

Tom

[Trainman440]

From what I gather from owning 5 of their 0-6-0s and 2 0-8-0s:

LL 0-8-0 tenders didnt have pick up

Walthers 0-8-0 tenders did. 

LL 0-6-0 (and walthers too probably) tenders did have tender pick up. Either that, or the first run was made in very small quanitities. 

(Ed, maybe since the 0-6-0 and 0-8-0 tenders are interchangable, maybe someone swapped a 0-8-0 tender with your 0-6-0? If you bought it used? idk)

For both:

Non sound/DCC versions had no speaker holes. Factory QSI sound equipped versions DID have room for TWO 28mm speaker holes. 

This also applies to their 2-8-4. (and possibly their 2-8-8-2 although I cannot confirm)

Either way, I would no recommend replacing the tender entirely as their custom drawbar design is very unique (which I like, but is flimsy), and if you were to find another tender you would also have to replace the entire drawbar/wiring system. 

I agree with the above: find another shell to put over the stock tender. Id recommend buying one from possibly Bachmann's parts store. They should have one in nearly any paint scheme. Get one of those generic 0-6-0 sloped back tender shells. Mantua, Rivarossi or bowser also make cheap tender shells, but would be in the used market. 

Charles

[Pruitt]

None of my Proto switchers, 0-8-0's and 0-6-0's (bought when they first came out) had decoders. They had the Bachmann PC board, which controlled directional lighting on DC through a set of diodes. The units were DCC ready, in that they accepted a direct 8-pin plug-in decoder in place of the PC Board. I installed Digitrax decoders (an early 123 series I think), which worked fine.

The 0-6-0's have tender pickups. The 0-8-0's do not, and on my dead-frog #5 switches they frequently stalled. The 0-6-0's don't stall because they have both loco and tender pickups. I replaced one of the Digitrax decoders in an 0-8-0 with a TCS Wow-sound kit, which includes a keep-alive, and that solved the stalling problem nicely, along with giving the loco good sound.

[wjstix]

Shock Control

It appears that there is an electrical connection between the locomotive and tender.

Does the locomotive draw power from the wheels of the tender, or is the tender responsible for the audio?

Normally on a "modern" (21st century) engine, the engine's drivers and all the tender's wheels will be used to pick up power. The decoder that creates the sound is in the tender, but the decoder is also what controls the engine's motion and lights on a DCC layout.

 

Shock Control

I'm really not interested in the audio. I'm curious if I can run one of these with a sloped tender from a different manufacturer. Alternately, I would like to know if Walthers sells or sold a sloped tender that could go with this unit.

 

On many engines, the tender wiring goes through a harness that plugs into the rear of the engine. If that's how your engine set up, you could try to track down a different Proto tender and swap them out. Most likely the wiring is set up in such a way that you couldn't use some other manufacturer's tender without doing a lot of wiring work.

 

Note that if the sound decoder is just plugged into a receptacle inside the tender, like a receptacle on a green 'light board', you could just unplug the sound decoder and speaker and plug in a non-sound decoder. You wouldn't need a new tender, and you could then probably sell the sound decoder and speaker to someone.