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Bachmann Fleet of Modernism PRR

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Bachmann Fleet of Modernism PRR
Posted by Royalgunner on Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:09 PM

Hello,

I am hoping to get some critiques and thoughts on Bachmanns PRR Fleet of Modernism cars. How close are they to the prototypes? Are they all meh or are some cars useful?

Cheers

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:24 PM

I hadn't heard the term Moderism.  Bachmann classifies them as smooth side passenger cars, as opposed to the heavy weights. 

Compared to a Rapido, their detail is pretty rudimentary.  I can't say how prototypical they are but the Spectrum Line just look better to me.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by Trainman440 on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:22 PM

Hi! 

Bachmann based their heavyweight cars off of PRR prototypes, but not their smooth sides (or atleast not all of them)

http://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/index.php/tpm/125-bachmann-prr-passenger-car-models
Although a bit outdated, I believe the FOM cars are just the smooth sided cars with a different paint scheme. From the reputable link above, it seems like they werent based off of PRR Prototypes.

 

From strictly a model stand point, they seem decently well made, however very overpriced for what you're getting. If you want PRR passenger cars, stick with Bachmann Heavyweights, Walthers heavyweight sleepers, and their lightweight lineup. 
http://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/index.php/tpm/136-walthers-prr-passenger-car-models

Here's the same source discussing Walthers car accuracies. 

Cheers!

Charles

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 8:41 PM

Royalgunner,

I would look at the MTH HO PRR passenger cars.  I purchased their entire set of 20th Century Limited passenger cars (10 cars, total) and they are terrific.  And the LED interior lighting module is great, as it uses a supercap for flicker-free operation.  In other words, NO battery needed. YesYes

http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:18 AM

The fleet of modernism was a Raymond Lowey design.  He also did the GG1, T1 and K4 steam engines.  It was a short lived paint scheme on smooth side name trains for the most part. If you want a definitive answer join prr group@io.  These people know a tremendous amount of information

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Posted by BEAUSABRE on Thursday, November 19, 2020 6:44 PM

"Modernism", AKA "Art Deco" was the "in" art style of the 1930's - everything was to be streamlined and smooth, "looking like the most mundane objects were about to accelerate to a hundred miles per hour" was how my art history professor put it. The archetpical  railroad item associated with the "Moderne" esthetic would be the GG1 locomotive.

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Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:17 PM

BEAUSABRE
The archetpical  railroad item associated with the "Moderne" esthetic would be the GG1 locomotive.

Along with this:

 mercury 1936 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

   — and certainly this:

 Century_life1 by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

 

 

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Posted by Trainman440 on Saturday, November 21, 2020 2:43 PM

gmpullman

 

 
BEAUSABRE
The archetpical  railroad item associated with the "Moderne" esthetic would be the GG1 locomotive.

 

Along with this:

 mercury 1936 by Edmund, on Flickr

 

   — and certainly this:

 Century_life1 by Edmund, on Flickr

Cheers, Ed

Get your dirty NYC outta here! Laugh

Cheers!

Charles

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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO

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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, November 21, 2020 6:34 PM

Trainman440
Get your dirty NYC outta here!

Tou want dirty NYC?

I can give you filthy NYC! Whistling

 NYC_5445_Elkhart by Edmund, on Flickr

Fallen from grace Sad   Ed

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Posted by Trainman440 on Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:24 PM

Ah, yes, this photo was a top candidate for colorizing for me. I might do it someday, but time is currently an issue right now. 

Cheers!

Charles

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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, November 21, 2020 11:57 PM

BEAUSABRE
"Modernism", AKA "Art Deco" was the "in" art style of the 1930's - everything was to be streamlined and smooth, "looking like the most mundane objects were about to accelerate to a hundred miles per hour" was how my art history professor put it.

Bohn was a leader at promoting this style. You can Google lots of great images of "Bohn Art Deco".

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 22, 2020 8:27 AM

Trainman440
Get your dirty NYC outta here! 

Ed, a suggestion:

3768 and 3678, a representative T1 (perhaps the Nance painting 'Smoke and Mirrors' and the photo that inspired it) and of course that quintessential icon of Streamline Moderne 6100...

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:23 AM

Overmod
Ed, a suggestion:    3768

You mean THIS 3768?

 PRR_NYC-meet by Edmund, on Flickr

 PRR_3768 by Edmund, on Flickr


For the OP:

 

 

 

Sure enough. Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 22, 2020 9:34 AM

gmpullman
You mean THIS 3768?

Is there any other?

Now, returning to the OP's question, the 3768 is a bit like a pre-WWI locomotive in a clown suit, like certain Milwaukee locomotives, and a great deal of the FOM 'effect' in appearance was likewise fancy paint and updated interiors in old cans -- at least at first.  Some of the 'true' modern lightweight equipment in that era was relatively short-lived due to a regrettable tendency to corrode.

Rightly or wrongly, I've generally thought of the FOM as being similar to what poorer B&O did to get a 'modern' appearance on the outside of most of its trains in that period.  As such I'd be tempted to say that getting the fancy paint 'right' is more important than rivet-counting accuracy of the cars to which the paint is applied...

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, November 22, 2020 10:45 AM

Overmod
Rightly or wrongly, I've generally thought of the FOM as being similar to what poorer B&O did to get a 'modern' appearance on the outside of most of its trains in that period.

Who can forget Peter Falles' Trompe-l'œil  effective use of "shadowlining" to bring a sense of élégant et moderne for the post-War traveler:

 Poplar Run_Pullman by Edmund, on Flickr

Pullman, and the roads adopting this economy, called these "betterment" cars. Some of the PRR "FOM" cars were built and painted as such while some existing equipment was given the two-tone Tuscan with gold leaf 1/4" stripes to "gild the lily" so-to-speak.

Now get busy with that masking tape Whistling

Regards, Ed

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:12 AM

Overmod

 

 
gmpullman
You mean THIS 3768?

 

Is there any other?

 

Now, returning to the OP's question, the 3768 is a bit like a pre-WWI locomotive in a clown suit, like certain Milwaukee locomotives, and a great deal of the FOM 'effect' in appearance was likewise fancy paint and updated interiors in old cans -- at least at first.  Some of the 'true' modern lightweight equipment in that era was relatively short-lived due to a regrettable tendency to corrode.

Rightly or wrongly, I've generally thought of the FOM as being similar to what poorer B&O did to get a 'modern' appearance on the outside of most of its trains in that period.  As such I'd be tempted to say that getting the fancy paint 'right' is more important than rivet-counting accuracy of the cars to which the paint is applied...

 

The B&O may not have been as flush with cash as the PRR, but it is my understanding that their choice in "streamlining" heavyweight cars in their own shops was more driven by other factors.

One, they had pretty extensive car shops they were happy to keep busy.

And two, their early experiances with lightweight cars made them shy about ordering more new equipment. There was a general feeling that lightweight cars did not ride as well thru the curvey routes, especially the line west, and that customers prefered the solid ride of the heavyweights. 

Trains were generally shorter than what PRR or NYC were running, weight vs available power was not an issue, they owned the cars, so they rebuilt them, several times in many cases.

While they did invest is some more modern equipment, they did not really imbrace the most modern lightweight equipment until about the time the C&O came on the property.....

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Trainman440 on Sunday, November 22, 2020 11:28 AM

To expand on Ed's point: 

I believe PRR didnt paint many of their heavyweights in FOM colors, but that doesn't stop me from wanting a full set of these! I think the FOM colors look stunning on heavyweights...just as much if not more so than on lightweight cars. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, November 22, 2020 12:36 PM

Here is the thing about passenger cars, in my humble opinion.

While many cars were "similar" and built from "basic" plans, with the exception of commuter coaches and head end equipment, few passenger cars were "identical".

This creates a tough situation for the model companies.

They have done wonderful things in the last 10-15 years in bringing us accurate passenger cars, but the truth is they have just scratched the surface.

And passenger cars seldom stayed the same for more than 5-8 years before being "refurbished" in some way. 

I decided years ago not to worry about accuracy to that level. In fact, most of my passenger cars are selectively compressed freelanced cars.

I found that one important detail that makes passenger TRAINS look more relistic is working touching diaphragms and close coupling.

So all my passenger cars are fitted like this:

With American Limited diaphragms and coupled as close as possible.

A few thoughts about car length.

In real life, not all passenger cars were 80-85 feet long.

In fact, even many early lightweight streamlined cars were only 75-78 feet long.

Most head end equipment, and many coaches were only 70' long or less.

We use curves that are very sharp compared to the real thing, shorter cars look more natural, can be closer coupled, and run better, even if you have relatively large curves.

I have large curves, 36" radius and larger. And it makes my mostly 72' passenger cars look really graceful.

85' cars squeeking around 32" radius curves, with big gaps between the diaphragms looks toylike to me, no matter how accurate each model is.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, November 22, 2020 1:43 PM

Review of 5 of the Bachman FOM cars by an avowed PRR fan:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ettmRZD6Q

This is I think the same thing Ed posted above but that few may have actually watched so far.

Among the points he makes: the cars would benefit from diaphragms, more weight, and perhaps better couplers; the underframe detail is scanty; the trucks click weirdly on four out of five examples right out of the box and have an unusual pickup system.

I could swear that the lightweight FOM cars ran with full-width diaphragms when built.   It also appears to me that the truck mounting is too high, and if the sideframes aren't correct to prototype this might add up to retrucking with 'something better' and adjusting the height and ride quality.

Someone in the know can comment on how well these cars match the previous 'real FOM' painted heavyweights in paint color and alignment.

 

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Posted by Trainman440 on Sunday, November 22, 2020 5:57 PM

I'll state what I stated before, the Bachmann cars arent accurate, nor do they have the quality of Walthers cars for the price theyre asking for imo. But the paint does capture the rough idea of an FOM train.

Walthers made TWO FOM cars, the 4-4-2 sleeper, and the 10-5 sleeper. Both have accurate prototypes IIRC.

They look stunning too.

They are rare on ebay, but sometimes you can get them for a great price:

This one just sold for $38

Charles

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, November 22, 2020 7:50 PM

I was smart lucky enough to pick up a Cascade-series 10-5 back when these first came out. 

 PRR_FOM_Pullman-broadside by Edmund, on Flickr

They are beautiful cars as are nearly all the Walthers Proto passenger cars.

 PRR_FOM_Pullman by Edmund, on Flickr

Rapido did a run of Budd coaches that are pretty good for the Pennsy lot. I grabbed one figuring its now-or-never. 

 PRR_Budd_Tuscan by Edmund, on Flickr

Color being subjective. I believe Walthers came a tiny bit closer to the Tuscan of the era, which was "reder" but the Rapido is good, too. If nit-picking, the gold pin stripe should be on the tip of the flute rather than in the valley. Like I said, nit picking Wink

 PRR_FOM_Tuscan by Edmund, on Flickr

I hear the Budd sales people had tried to convince the Pennsy purchasing agents that painting the stainless steel was not necessary, and PRR finally caught on but not for a few years Whistling

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by oldline1 on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 8:22 PM

Well, to get even further away from the OP's question. It seems everyone has different color matches on their versions of FOM cars.

Were they Tuscan Red with a darker band through the windows or was the band TR with a lighter red around it?

Assuming at that time they used Bronze Gold lettering & stripes.

oldline1

 

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:15 AM

oldline1
Were they Tuscan Red with a darker band through the windows or was the band TR with a lighter red around it?

 PRR_FOM-layout by Edmund, on Flickr

The car body was the same "Tuscan Red" as the remainder of the "fleet". The band was darker Tuscan #70-19 or PRR Maroon #47-2249.

Lettering was going through various changes in materials from gold leaf to DuPont gold pigmented lacquer to Pullman Imitation Gold #600-9 throughout years 1938 through 1953.

Even the above drawing is a simplification of the original plan. A 1/4 " gold stripe has been eliminated at the drip rail and the 1/8 black outline has been removed from the 5/8" window band stripe and the lettering outline.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 7:43 AM

oldline1
Assuming at that time they used Bronze Gold lettering & stripes.

Bruce Smith at Auburn, who is probably as close to a 'definitive reference' to PRR paint details as we have, noted as late as the end of 2019 that PRR never used 'Bronze Gold' for lettering, even as a euphemism for gold leaf.  (A conclusion which logically follows is that decals using 'bronze gold' for PRR lettering - and there are many - are inaccurate.  I have no credentials to judge whether that is so or not.)

On the other hand, 3768 when streamlined in 1936 was initially painted a 'dark bronze' color (which I remember being discussed as being a kind of early metalflake paint in appearance).

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Posted by TheFlyingScotsman on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 2:59 PM

I am loving gmpullman's detailing pics. Very nicely done. Although few of us have $6k to spend on some passenger cars I do like to log in at the brass guide section of brasstrains.com and ogle their detailed pics of complete train specific Fleet of Modernism consists. It's my favourite of all the paint schemes and I do find the betterment cars very interesting. Can't see us ever getting a decent set in  plastic for the Spirit of St Louis or Southwind, but I live in hope.

If the Bachmann observation car was skirted I would get one for sure but I am piled high with passenger trains for now.

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