I am 74 years old and a new member here, I have been messing with trains most of my life, but been away from it for several years.
I have a new HO scale Niagara that runs fine on 22 radius track except the tender keeps derailing.
It's the NYC with fourteen wheels, It doesn't matter how slow I go it immediately derails.
I am using Atlas code 83 at 22 radius, this is a quick layout for Christmas this year, I am building a man cave that I will use a minimum of 24 radius track.
I wanted one of these Niagara's for a long time as my grandfather operated one for the NYC.
Any help would greatly be appreciated, Thank You for your time........Ron
My BLI Hudson didn't like tight curves, either. I believe BLI anticipated this, and either provided a slightly longer drawbar to use between the engine and the tender, or provided a second pin to mount it. Look to separate the engine and tender a bit and it should perform better.
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to the forum! I would check the tender wheels and make sure they all sit flat on the track. You might have to adjust the screws on the trucks if that is problem. The wiring might also be interfering truck movement - I saw that on a BLI Mikado. Apart from length, the drawbar should not lift any wheels when pulling.
Simon
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Does the tender still derail if you pull it through the 22 inch radius curves with the locomotive attached?
This might be a model that simply requires larger curves. When I get one of these, I get rid of it. I will have 24 inch radius hidden curves, and I cannot have derailements on hidden tracks.
I verify all my equipment on 22 inch radius curves.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Hello Ron,
Welcome aboard. Let me say right up front, what I say is speculation from afar, since I don't own a BLI Niagara. I do know this beast has a "centipede" tender which rides on a 4-10-0 wheel arrangement. Five axles in a non-swiveling, rigid frame is asking for an awful lot on a 22" radius. Have you tried seperating the tender from the locomotive and testing it on the curve alone? There should be extra sideplay for the wheelsets, to compensate for their inability to swivel. Even four wheel freight car trucks allow for some side-to-side movement within their frames so, a five axle, rigid sideframe truck should be expected to contain as much or more sideplay.
Another issue I've had with steamers is, insufficient weight in the tenders. A Niagara is a big engine and with it's long wheelbase, coupled to a long wheelbase tender on a 22" radius curve, both are operating at the limits of their ability so, the weight of the tender could contribute to the issue. Does the front (four wheel) truck on the tender attach to the tender with a regular swiveling mount as found on a freight car or does it attach with the ability to move from side to side as well as swivel?
You mention using a 24" radius in that man-cave. Unless you want to follow the prototype and restrict the bigger beasts to the larger radius curves, (main line, and portions of yards), I would opt for 26" absolute minimum for cruves on the mains. The big engines and full length passenger cars will give a lot fewer headaches and look a whole lot better. Again, welcome back and enjoy!
Welcome to the forum. I have two Niagaras, one the original version, Paragon, and the newest is a Paragon 2. Neither gives me any problems, but they might need some tuning up. The drawbar under the cab of the locomotive might not traverse smoothly in its slot. I believe the original Paragon has a sprung drawbar, and maybe that's where things are going wrong.
If you couple the tender to the locomotive using the hole closest to the locomotive, you'll very certainly not stay railed...it's much too close on tighter curves. You'll have to back the coupling off to the hole furthest from the locomotive.
I would check the gauge of all axles as well. The middle ones have a lot of side-play so that they'll run on tighter curves, but anytime you get close to the claimed/engineered limits, your probability of 'errors' rises quickly. At the very least you'll want all those many axles in gauge.
Last, but by no means least, these larger steamers and their centipede tenders don't like wobbly tracks. The rails must be very close to level across from each other at any place, no tilting, and the joints must be kept at grade level along the tighter curves. If a wheel flange gets lifted clear of the rail head along a curve, you'll get a derailment.
Welcome on board Ron.
One of the suggestions already mentioned should solve your challenge.
If possible try to have a larger radius to give locomotives an easier ride.
David
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One thing that I have done with some of my BLI steamers is to disconnect the tender from the engine's drawbar and run the steamer with only the wiring harness connected to the tender. You need to be careful not to damage the wiring harness, but by disconnecting the tender from the loco drawbar, you can see if the tender derailments cease. If they do cease, then you know that the problem is with the drawbar connection and not the tender itself.
Rich
Alton Junction
Does it derail at the same spot? What type of track are you using? Yes, I know you're using Atlas code 83, but are you using sectional track or flex track? 22"R is the recommended minimum radius for the Niagara, so if there is a slight kink anywhere, it's going to cause the radius to go under 22"R. An innacurate rail joint, or slight bend in flex track, could be the issue.
Welcome Ron.
I have a BLI Niagara that operates without a problem on both my 22-1/2 main line and 20 inch radius inner main line.
Make sure the tender wheels have the proper gauage and use the draw bar hole furtherest from the locomotive.
Since I have a few small radius snap switches on the BRVRR I set the wheel gage on the tender wheels a little narrower than my gage indicates is proper. This probably helps on the smaller curves as well.
Good luck with your Niagara and the new layout.
Again welcome to the forum.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Many years ago (50yrs) I bought a Centipede tender kit for my Bowser Big Boy and the tender wheels came in two different packages one labeled center wheels. They were a bit more narrow spaced than the lead and trailing wheels. Back then I had several 18” radius curves and the Big Boy with the tender would negotiate the tight radius, looked funny but run without derailing. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.