I want to start and go through all my projects and finish them before any more acccumulate ( Thats a big problem I have ). I want to add the detail parts to the engines on the workbench. The problem I now have is drilling the holes for things such as grab irons and plows. Whats the best tool to use when doing so. My first thought was a dremmel. What do you guys use?
I use my Dremel and found the Dremel drill press helps a lot and even saves the tiny drill bits.Mel
My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I use a rotary tool with a tiny bit for things like that.
I use a pin vise. It is slow but with care I can avoid breaking the drill bits.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
The important thing is not the power but the guidance. Make up or use a fixture/jig that holds the tool precisely in line with the bit and lets you feed either it or the work straight into it. I believe there are guide tools comparable to those used at larger scale for drilling and tapping that will keep the drill bit straight except the tip as you plunge. Make up something that holds the workpiece at the right angle and alignment, too. Don't try freehanding it where the light's better. This is just as appropriate to hand drills or pin vises as it is to high-speed Dremel tools.
If you want to use power (e.g. to avoid shaky hands in long repetitive drilling sessions) and don't want to use the equivalent of a drill press, I'd recommend using a handpiece for a motor tool, preferably with a pedal control and speed regulation. Use the slowest speed that gets the result you want.
Oh, and take the time to pre-spot where all your drilled holes will be, and centerpunch or press an indentation to guide the drill point -- I used to use a pushpin tip for plastic carbodies, but a fine needle with the eye end stuck in a cork would give more precision. If the drill doesn't skip or wander, both your temper and your bits are likelier to remain intact.
Pin vises for fine drilling need a collet sized to the shank of the bit. Note that serious 8mm large aficionados have whole racks full of collets only a couple of thou or hundredths-mm apart, with enormous cumulative cost. Those are not just for bragging rights in American Machinist & similar forums.
What will you be drilling into? Plastic, metal, or both?
For plastic I would go with a good pin vise. I find that hand-drilling with the a pin vise allows for better control & feel of the smaller drill bits (#70 & higher) with the material being drilled. And I wear the drill bits out far more often than breaking them.
And do NOT buy a cheap pin vise. Spend the $15-$20 for a Starrett. You will never regret it. Cheap pin vises do not hold the bits well. The Starrett pin vises have krurled handles and a 4-piece jaw for better gripping.
For metal, I still prefer a pin vise. However, it depends how many holes I would be drilling into the metal - e.g. brass. A dremmel would make for a good investiment but ONLY if it will allow for low RPM drilling, as well as high RPM.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I mostly use a pin vise with a ball handle. I find it gives me good control.
I have also used a dremel with the old dremel drill press. (The table moves not the tool.) It works pretty well drilling into wood. Never tried it on metal.
Paul
tstage What will you be drilling into? Plastic, metal, or both? For plastic I would go with a good pin vise. I find that hand-drilling with the a pin vise allows for better control & feel of the smaller drill bits (#70 & higher) with the material being drilled. And I wear the drill bits out far more often than breaking them. And do NOT buy a cheap pin vise. Spend the $15-$20 for a Starrett. You will never regret it. Cheap pin vises do not hold the bits well. The Starrett pin vises have krurled handles and a 4-piece jaw for better gripping. For metal, I still prefer a pin vise. However, it depends how many holes I would be drilling into the metal - e.g. brass. A dremmel would make for a good investiment but ONLY if it will allow for low RPM drilling, as well as high RPM. Tom
I will be drilling into mostly plastic ( loco bodies) to install grab irons and plows. I was looking into the dremel lite, but after watching a youtube video on how to use a pin vise, I think I will be using that. Will look into the Starrett. Thanks for the info!
Your welcome, Ringo. The Starretts aren't inexpensive but they make really good tools.
I still want to get my hands on a pair of analog Starrett calipers. While digital pairs are handy for converting between english and metric, I still love the dial for sensitivity and it doesn't require a battery.
I threw away all my cheap pin vises and bought a couple Starrett pin vises off ebay. Cheap ones don't really grip the drill very well and it slips.
I don't have steady enough hands to use a battery powered dremel to drill holes for grab irons.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I generally use a pin vise, but in some cases, have found that my battery-powered DeWalt impact driver is ideal. I have some bit holders that plug right into the business end of the driver.I then rest the driver, suitably aimed, in the middle drawer of my work desk, and manipulate the item to be drilled with my free hand, feeding it to the drill bit rather than vice-versa. The driver can be run slow enough to not melt plastic, and I've yet to break a small-sized bit while using the driver.I was genuinely surprised by how well it works and how precisely it can be controlled.
I also have a single-speed Dremel, and a larger motor tool with a flex shaft, but both are used mainly with cut-off discs.
Wayne
Hi Ringo58,
I strongly agree with the previous suggestions to buy a quality pin vise!
However, even with a good pin vise, there is a tendancy for new users to break bits. There is a simple way to avoid that:
Instead of chucking the bit with most of it sticking out of the pin vise, install the bit so that there is just enough of it sticking out to drill through the material. If your shell is 1/16" thick, chuck the bit so that there is only 3/32" sticking out. What this does is that it removes the possibility of the bit flexing as you drill the hole. If the fine bits are allowed to flex excessively, that's when they break.
Also, resist the urge to buy a set of drills, usually offered from size 50 or so to size 80. Instead, buy multiples of a few frequently used sizes. If you buy a set and then break one of the drills that you are using, you are out of luck. If you buy your drills 10 at a time in just a few sizes, you will have replacements on hand when one breaks.
Here is what I would suggest:
10 each of:
- #79
- #76
- #73
- #70
Two or three each of:
- #65
- #60
- #55
I do not suggest buying #80 bits because they break if you look at them the wrong way! The #79s are close enough that the CA glue will fill the gap and they seem to be much more sturdy.
Good luck!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I personally like the #61-#80 drill bit set, as that gives me options to go up or down hole sizes incrimentally and it's conveniently packaged together. But, I also buy extras of the #71 thru #80 bits and keep them in a drawer: One extra of the less used sizes and multiples of more frequently used sizes.
Ringo58My first thought was a dremmel. What do you guys use?
For drill sizes from about 65 to 80 I use a pin vise. My favorite is sold by Gale Force Nine. It has a big ball on a swivel that fits in my huge hands quite nicely. You will need to find one that is comfortable for you to use. What works for me might not work for you.
For drill sizes larger than 65 I use a pin vise for plastic, and a 4.8 volt battery operated Dremel for other materials. The El-Cheapo 4.8 volt model turns slow enough to work in most metals, and does not have enough power to do much damage with the drill bit binds.
Again, there is a lot of room for personal preference in these tools.
This is a picture I found on line of the Gale Force Nine pin vise. Mine is packed away.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
tstageI personally like the #61-#80 drill bit set, as that gives me options to go up or down hole sizes incrimentally and it's conveniently packaged together. But, I also buy extras of the #71 thru #80 bits and keep them in a drawer: One extra of the less used sizes and multiples of more frequently used sizes.
Hi Tom,
Yours is the most professional approach but I was trying to save the OP a little money since he is just starting out.
I don't fret if the hole is a bit too large. By the time the grab irons are glued in and everything is painted the slightly larger hole usually can't be seen. Occasionally there will be a bit of excess CA around the holes, but if you use gel CA and apply the CA from the inside of the shell, that doesn't happen very often.
I admit that my approach is a bit crude. Perhaps you might have inspired the OP to work to your tighter standards.
Cheers!!
THIS thread covered some territory on the drilling of brass where I made a few examples of what I use for drilling:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/279267/3205532.aspx#3205532
This is some of my drilling arsenal:
Drill_chucks by Edmund, on Flickr
I recently drilled a pretty thick headlight and went right on through the smokebox front, which in itself was about 3/32" thick with no hesitation,
PRR_N2_headlight by Edmund, on Flickr
The General mini driver is single speed at 100 RPM and reversible. For most of my drilling 100 RPM is ideal. Sure, most of the times a pin vice is called for but if I have many of the same-size hole or have to drill brass, zinc-alloy or aluminum the General is ideal.
It is only a mini screw driver. You have to adapt your own chuck to it (see thread above). The slowest speed on most variable speed Dremel tools is 5000 RPM. {Click on Rotary Tool Comparison Chart} Unless you get the 9100 with the foot pedal.
tstageI still want to get my hands on a pair of analog Starrett calipers.
Tom, I have an old #120A-6 you can have if you'd like. It saw daily use at GE but still has a few good years left in her. Cordless, too! Send me a PM since I don't have your current address.
Cheers, Ed
I needed to drill some holes in a Athearn F unit nose for grab irons. I naturally thought of using the Dremel I had. I put a tiny bit in it and found it difficult to control and it could wobble as well. From that experience, I went and bought a PIN vise and haven't looked back. Slow and steady wins the race.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I needed to drill some holes in a Athearn F unit nose for grab irons. I naturally thought of using the Dremel I had. I put a tiny bit in it and found it difficult to control and it could wobble as well. From that experience, I went and bought a PIN vise and haven't looked back. Slow and steady wins the race.
hey I'm looking to add grab irons to an F7! Trying to make a Bachman shell look like a genesis. I think I have my work cut out for me
Pin vise for small bits. Dremel for bits over an 1/8 inch. Use a sharp pick to start. Just a tiny indent will help keep the bit from walking. A set of sharp dividers will help with spacing holes.
Thank you all for the suggestions and help! Ordered my pin vice an a kit of drill bits ( #61-#80)
I really lucked out many years ago when my grandson gave me a Craftsman Mini Drill for Christmas. I have used it for my model railroading projects for years, I had to replace the battery about two years ago but with a micro chuck plugged in the ¼” hex shaft it works very good even for shaky hands Mel down to #76 drill bits.
It is two speed 200RPM/600RPM with trigger reversing switch and 24 position torque clutch, great for drilling small holes.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
For brass, I also prefer to use a power drill. I'll start with a tiny bit and a pin vise to mark a hole - I don't go all the way, just enough to make a guiding mark. My power drill is easier to hold than my dremel...
For plastics and softer white metals I will use a pin vise, starting with a small bit and gradually enlarging the hole with larger bits until I get the size I am looking for. Quality drill bits make a big difference...
Simon
Thank you for including the P/N for the chuck, Mel. That will work awesome in my impact driver. It's a bit big but after using it for a long time upside down under dashbords, It's very easy to control.
Ringo58after using it for a long time upside down under dashbords
If you can do anything upside down and underneath a dashboard, you are a more determined person than I am.
That is a level of hell I am glad I do not need to go into ever again.
I would rather spend eight hours under the hood than ten minutes under the dashboard.
SeeYou190I would rather spend eight hours under the hood than ten minutes under the dashboard.
(While on the subject, why do German engineers put blower motors at the very bottom of complex structures ... and design them so cheap multiple-speed control takes them out whenever it fails?)
Overmod SeeYou190 I would rather spend eight hours under the hood than ten minutes under the dashboard. But what about when you have to spend eight hours disassembling the dashboard to get to what needs fixing instead of ten minutes with arms over your head? (While on the subject, why do German engineers put blower motors at the very bottom of complex structures ... and design them so cheap multiple-speed control takes them out whenever it fails?)
SeeYou190 I would rather spend eight hours under the hood than ten minutes under the dashboard.
But what about when you have to spend eight hours disassembling the dashboard to get to what needs fixing instead of ten minutes with arms over your head?
probably the same reason they used biodegradable wiring
LastspikemikeThe parts are buried like that because they are designed and built to never fail.
Nearly every part of every automobile is designed to never fail. It makes no difference where it is made, quality is built into everything.
Parts need to be buried, because automobiles are not as large as class 8 trucks, and if your consumer demands all these features inside of a sleek looking body, something is going to be on the bottom or innermost point.
LastspikemikeThe Germans have long suffered from delusions of superiority
Not sure about your comment about German Engineers. I have worked closely with several German Engineers (and engineers from many other countries), and they suffer from no delusions of godlike power. They honestly are trying to design better products.