We had a discussion at a get together if you should lube the wheels on a new car or locomotive. My thoughts are if it squeaks, a small drop of oil if not leave it alone. Gears, yes but sparingly.
Dave
That sounds right. I've replaced a lot of old plastic wheelsets with metal wheelsets, and sometimes I needed new trucks as well, but I never had to oil them.
Anytime I open up a locomotive, particularly if I am doing anything with the drive train, my tube of LaBelle grease is always ready to refresh that lubrication.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Brass engines / rolling stock aside, all the moving parts in todays engines / cars are either a slippery delron-like plastic or oil impregnated bronze, neither of which NEED lubrication.
The only reason manufacturers gunk up the gear box with grease is to quiet down a sloppy gear train. If the gears are a bit sloppy, cake in the grease to quiet them down. First thing I do with a new engine is tear down the trucks and remove all the grease and oil. Seldom do I ever re-lube the trucks after re-assembly.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I totally agree with Mark about the plastic trucks. I have never oiled or used graphite on any of my rolling stock trucks and they all roll quite well. If the replacement metals wheels do not rotate well in a truck I give them a turn or two with a Reboxx truck tuner to remove the burr. That usually does the trick.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
DAVID FORTNEYWe had a discussion at a get together if you should lube the wheels on a new car or locomotive.
I use over 99% Kadee trucks and wheels on my freight car fleet. Per Kadee's suggestion, these do not get lubricated.
My locomotive gear trains, both brass steamers and plastic diesels, get torn down and cleaned before going into service. The gear train receives one tiny dollup of grease when reassembled. Older motor bearings receive one tiny drop of oil.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
tstage I totally agree with Mark about the plastic trucks. I have never oiled or used graphite on any of my rolling stock trucks and they all roll quite well. If the replacement metals wheels do not rotate well in a truck I give them a turn or two with a Reboxx truck tuner to remove the burr. That usually does the trick. Tom
Rich
Alton Junction
On most of my freight cars I use metal axles in metal trucks and I do use a drop of light oil on them.
I do not mess with locomotive gears unless there is a problem, then I do clean and relube them.
Sheldon
The only ones I've ever done anything to are Walthers Superliners. They dragged more than rolled because the trucks are kind of wonky. Little puff of graphite in there and they roll now.
NittanyLionWalthers Superliners. They dragged more than rolled
Russell
LastspikemikeI put tiny amounts of oil on the very ends of the needle points of the axles. That was probably not a good idea.
Metal turning in metal needs lubricant. Same for locomotive motor shaft end bearings if they happen to be metal and those funny square axle bearings which definitely are metal.
Low surface activity, as in Delrin, is not exactly the same thing as high lubricosity, and in situations of high or variable engaging pressure it is still wise to provide a lubricant. I don't think that typical model-railroad pressure reaches that, even in high shear between a multiple-thread worm and its driven gear... but I lubricate anyway.
There is a complication seen in clocks that can apply to electric models as well. If you have a hard shaft turning in a softer-face journal, any hard particles in dirt will become preferentially embedded in the softer material, where they constitute little lathe tools and wear away the hard material of the shaft. This seems counterintuitive until you know what to look for, and is a primary reason not to use "too much oil" that traps and can then entrain abrasive dust. I don't think there is a comparable action for plastic gears as the surface deforms elastically around fine 'asperities' rather than being machined by them...
Overmod Lastspikemike I put tiny amounts of oil on the very ends of the needle points of the axles. That was probably not a good idea. Probably not a bad idea, though. Apparently these don't work like conical bearings between stones, as in some early watches; there is some bearing between the upper conical face of the extreme point and the plastic, with the pointed tips only giving lateral location. If that is so a small amount of oil should be reasonably self-locating and of benefit. Metal turning in metal needs lubricant. Same for locomotive motor shaft end bearings if they happen to be metal and those funny square axle bearings which definitely are metal. The thing to be careful of here is the type of metal. Often this will be some type of Oilite bearing (which is sintered material, sometimes of more than one 'particle' type or size) and some or all of the 'oil channels' to the journal may be coked up or dirty. Such a bearing may need a particular kind of lubricant, and may deserve inspection and even solvent/mechanical cleaning before finish lubing. Folks say these are 'lifetime lubed' and to leave them alone, but in my experience this is not always so. Low surface activity, as in Delrin, is not exactly the same thing as high lubricosity, and in situations of high or variable engaging pressure it is still wise to provide a lubricant. I don't think that typical model-railroad pressure reaches that, even in high shear between a multiple-thread worm and its driven gear... but I lubricate anyway. There is a complication seen in clocks that can apply to electric models as well. If you have a hard shaft turning in a softer-face journal, any hard particles in dirt will become preferentially embedded in the softer material, where they constitute little lathe tools and wear away the hard material of the shaft. This seems counterintuitive until you know what to look for, and is a primary reason not to use "too much oil" that traps and can then entrain abrasive dust. I don't think there is a comparable action for plastic gears as the surface deforms elastically around fine 'asperities' rather than being machined by them...
Lastspikemike I put tiny amounts of oil on the very ends of the needle points of the axles. That was probably not a good idea.
Probably not a bad idea, though. Apparently these don't work like conical bearings between stones, as in some early watches; there is some bearing between the upper conical face of the extreme point and the plastic, with the pointed tips only giving lateral location. If that is so a small amount of oil should be reasonably self-locating and of benefit.
The thing to be careful of here is the type of metal. Often this will be some type of Oilite bearing (which is sintered material, sometimes of more than one 'particle' type or size) and some or all of the 'oil channels' to the journal may be coked up or dirty. Such a bearing may need a particular kind of lubricant, and may deserve inspection and even solvent/mechanical cleaning before finish lubing. Folks say these are 'lifetime lubed' and to leave them alone, but in my experience this is not always so.
I use mostly sprung metal freight trucks with metal axle wheel sets. Specificly, Kadee trucks refitted with Intermountain wheel sets.
Why? They roll the best, they add weight down low, they are equalized which I have found to be important as train lengths increase, and, realistic or not, I started in this hobby in an age when most model freight trucks were sprung.
Let's get a few engineering facts straight about model railroad trucks with pointed axles.
The weight does not bear on the the axle point or tip. It bears on the top of the axle cone.
A review of NMRA RP-24 for wheels and trucks will help with this.
Axle length must be shorter that journal bore span. RP-24 recommends that the axle be .003" shorter than the journal bore span.
My experiance suggests even greater differences are good, and sometimes necessary with sprung trucks.
RP-24 also suggests a 50 degree axle cone riding in a 60 degree journal cone.
I oil my axles at the time of installation. The cast metal of the truck sideframes acts like an oilite bearing and holds the oil, they seldom need re-oiling. I have have never had dirt or "oil spill" issues.
All good points, Sheldon.
From my experience, locomotive manufacturers seem to swing to both sides of the "lube" spectrum, from packing so much grease into the gearing that it oozes out in the package to bone-dry, no lube at all (which I would prefer).
Everyone seems to be familiar with the Life-Like "peanut butter" grease:
L-L_SD-7fw by Edmund, on Flickr
This is a new Bowser C-630:
IMG_5079_fix by Edmund, on Flickr
I've had one or two cases where there was so much grease that it actually leaked into the plastic wrap, probably from being in a hot delivery truck or warehouse, and ruined the paint on the shell.
Some of the recent Athearn Genesis and Kato models I have were shipped sans-lube. I wonder if the manufacturers have to disclose the lubricant in their ISO certification? For this reason BLI stopped supplying little tubes of smoke fluid as it would have to be disclosed in shipping documents.
I definitely plase a tiny drop of CRC-2-26 on the axle tips of my Walthers passenger cars. The truck side frames are pot-metal and the rolling ability and current pickup are greatly improved with a light application of conductive lube.
Good Luck, Ed