Hello all, I've been on the hunt for a PRR T1 that's within my budget, but the only ones that fall into the affordable catagory for me are fixer-uppers/beaters. I came across this one on ebay that I may be interested in, https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-1-87-VINTAGE-BOWSER-T-1-PRR-STEAM-LOCO-W-TENDER-PARTS-OR-REPAIR-USED/293714842746?hash=item4462c4d47a:g:FYsAAOSwFVBfTTmv but as you can probably see in the photos it's in pretty rough shape. Would this be worth persuing, and if so, what would be a good price?
You'll replace or tediously refinish every part of that locomotive, and have to completely rebuild the frame and drive. Neither of the trucks is even a guide for what you'd have to do to superdetail it; the rods were never anything but an approximation of the real thing, and of course the lubricator drive was a joke of stampings and rivets. In essence you're be doing a complete restoration without having any particular piece of original fabric that could be used as a guide.
My opinion is to start with a 'broken' Broadway Limited engine, which has at least the advantage of better proportions, and redesign the drivetrain along the 'first principles' often covered here. You'll pay more, but if you use the engine to make castings and use those for detail, you may have enough of the original to peddle on eBay as parts or a 'project'. No point even thinking about doing that with a Bowser, even if it were in much better condition.
Join the T1 Trust and all the necessary detail drawings are in the repository...
Now, I'd dearly love to say that if all you want is the 'visual experience' of a T1 and not rivet-counting fidelity, the situation would be different. And if you don't mind the amount of work that has to be done, particularly to get it to run quietly and evenly, then spending a couple of tens may be worthwhile. But the opening price of that basket case is nearly $35 shipped, plus a wad of work and research. I would put this not in the 'nice price' but 'crack pipe' category...
If anyone encourages you, and better yet offers to help with the work, listen to them and not to me.
You could check with Bowser to see what parts are still available. Their website says "Most repair parts are available. When we exhaust these repair parts we do not plan to restock":
https://www.bowser-trains.com/discontinued/hodiscontinuedlocot1.html
An Ebay search on "Bowser PRR T-1 steam locomotive HO" came up with several sets of detail parts for the engine. However I suspect if you can get all the parts to fix up the engine, you might be looking at a couple hundred dollars.
FWIW if I were desparate to get a T-1 for my layout I would probably find a way to just buy a BLI engine, perhaps using PayPal Credit's 'six months same as cash' deal to spread out the payments.
A guy at my club had one of the BLI T-1's and everyone thought it was really nice. That would have been in about 2005 or so. It's a much better engine to start with.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
My thing is restoring clunker locomotives and I have done very well, out of about 75 I have only run across one that couldn’t be restored (Bachmann Pancake motor GS-4, saved the shell and rear trucks). Because Bowser won’t have the parts needed I wouldn’t go for it. Also the total cost of $34.95 + (Bid Item) is way to high for the condition.I would pass on it if it were me.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Maybe the seller means he'll GIVE someone $34.95 to take it off his hands.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
If you simply MUST HAVE ONE, then it'll be worth the price...plus shipping. But, as the others have wondered, and suggested you do as well, what exactly will you have for all that cost? It's someone's unloved toy being dumped on eBay, rode hard and put away frothy.
If you just want the look, then sure, tidy it up, some sanding or paint removal, fill some pits and more sanding, hand rubbing, and then paint it. Add a few details over the next few months, and you have a nice locomotive to sit on your 'ready track'. Only you will know.
Wolf359 Hello all, I've been on the hunt for a PRR T1 that's within my budget, but the only ones that fall into the affordable catagory for me are fixer-uppers/beaters. I came across this one on ebay that I may be interested in, https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-SCALE-1-87-VINTAGE-BOWSER-T-1-PRR-STEAM-LOCO-W-TENDER-PARTS-OR-REPAIR-USED/293714842746?hash=item4462c4d47a:g:FYsAAOSwFVBfTTmv but as you can probably see in the photos it's in pretty rough shape. Would this be worth persuing, and if so, what would be a good price?
No.
The best thing the seller or buyer could do is dump it in the garbage and save everybody from bothering with it.
My answer to your question is a big NO!!!!!
DAVE
Of course it can be saved, and if your hobby was restoring old Bowser locomotive kits, it could be a lot of fun.
If you are a model railroader, you should stay away from this one. It will either eat up all your time and effort as well as causing frustration, or you will just be the one to toss it into the trash.
Can it be saved: Yes.
Is it worth it: No.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I also suspect that may be the old lead boiler version, too. Which makes it even more not worth it, except as a paperweight. Judging by the old style fabric covered wire to the headlight. Although whoever built it could have just had that on hand.
Literally everything is gone, the handrails are all rusted, the motor is likely not salvageable, it's the single motor version with only one engine driven (there were versions with two motors). Hard pass. They were tough to get running well in the first place, and the detail is severely lacking. The BLI would be a much better starting point.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Now, I am a supporter of buying old bowser kits and building from them. Bowser/mantua/mdc kits come together pretty nicely with lots of effort.
I myself have owned a bowser A5, L1s, MDC 4-4-2, 2-8-0, and 3 Mantua 0-4-0s. Although a bit outdated for current times, they give for a fun project to work on!
That being said, there are a multitude of reasons for why not to buy this.
1. THIS IS A PENN LINE KIT. An older version of bowser, Penn line kits are far more outdated than even bowser engines. Note the brass(non nickel plated) drive wheels and trailing truck wheels. The shell as someone else pointed out, seems to be the heavy lead casted shell. The open frame motor looks like a penn line version, not the Bowser one.
2. Note the rust. This clearly has been either sitting in a very moist environment, or possibly even been through a flooding accident. These are RED FLAGS as far as buying old diecast kits are concerned.
3. The engine is clearly missing parts. While yes, you can try to scrounge for parts online, its simply not worth the effort. At this point, if youre going to buy a diecast kit/engine, make sure it is COMPLETE. That's why new bowser kits still go for up to $120. This on the otherhand, is atmost, a parts engine.
4. The engine clearly has been neglected by the original owner. Another bad sign. if you want to restore it fully.
With all that being said, $35 isn't too bad, for a display model, showing the history of model trains. I could see myself stripping the paint, and polishing everything up, and having the engine sit on my desk, just to show how far model railroading has come. But as far as any running/accurate/detailed T1 goes, its a no go.
Damaged BLI T1s can be had for about $150 on ebay if youre lucky.
Charles
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLb3FRqukolAtnD1khrb6lQ
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
Here were some recently sold T1s at good prices.
Like new for $200: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Broadway-Limited-PRR-T1-duplex-5517-first-run-immaculate-correct-lettering/293695322694?hash=item44619afa46:g:NjcAAOSw2rNfOyic
weathered $165: https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLI-HO-Scale-PRR-T1-Steam-Engine-4-4-4-4-with-DCC-and-Sound-5533-/254649482466?hash=item3b4a4abce2%3Ag%3AwyoAAOSwDZhfCGFx&nma=true&si=FgIJxbogjgYU1JEcwTlFHU1UAWA%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Fixer upper, needs a repaint $160: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Broadway-Limited-Blueline-5114-T-1-4-4-4-4-DCC-Equipped-W-Upgraded-Sound-Lights/373092653678?hash=item56de0e1a6e:g:aRUAAOSwmI9e8HxG
Point being, if you really look, you can find some at decent prices!
Many of Bowser's steam locomotives began as Penn Line kits. Bowser made improvements, but in most cases (K4, E6, L1) the Penn Line drive train and basic boiler castings were sound if basic. But the T1 boiler and cab was never one of Penn Line's prouder moments purely visually (lots of chill marks from the casting process, and the big metal tender had chill marks too), and I recall that even before Bowser acquired the tooling, Penn Line had to make some changes to the drive train (I have some recollection of a flexible wire coupling that was prone to binding up, and Penn Line and then later Bowser both improved that aspect.)
I also seem to recall that Penn Line's "nose" profile for the T1 was different than Broadway Limited's, but that in fact the prototype went through a change or two itself. It might be that the Penn Line nose is accurate for one version of the T1 - but I defer to others on that.
There are Penn Line steamers and Bowser steamers that are worth tinkering with if the price is right (and if you enjoy tinkering), but I am not sure the T1 makes the cut on that.
Dave Nelson
Well, I'm glad I decided to ask about this one. Since the answer is overwhelmingly "no, it's not worth it", I'll be passing on this engine. I was thinking that might be the case, and this confirms it. So, I'll keep looking for something better. Thank you all for your input. It's been very helpful.
dknelsonI also seem to recall that Penn Line's "nose" profile for the T1 was different than Broadway Limited's, but that in fact the prototype went through a change or two itself. It might be that the Penn Line nose is accurate for one version of the T1 - but I defer to others on that.
I think you can see the cast nose detail better on the other junk T1 this seller has on eBay, directly below the listing for this one. With a bunch of Dremeling and some strategic fabrication you could get reasonably close, and certainly get the 'wicked-cool' look.
It's all the rest, including the utterly unprototypical chassis construction, that poses the worst of the problem.
Run away from this !!!
Run fast , run far .
The few parts that are left are just this side of "scrap" ..... Hmmmmm...
If it were $5, I would buy it for a gondola load of scrap. Otherwise, it's just too far gone .
Run far, far away.
Rust...... It's a good thing !
Let me put it this way: around '07 or '08, I bought a "partly assembled" Penn Line (so, the kit's from the '60's or '70's) Pennsy Consolidation.
Reassemble, redo, redo, still has a short - runs, except when I put the superstructure on. Spent more on parts than if I had bought a brand new kit, and superdetail kit. Had WAAAAY more fun than I wanted.
It does, however, look incredible.
Wolf359 .... I know you said you have decided "no", but you might be interested in my restored Bowser PRR T1. The fun of model railroading is more in what you build than what you own. So, you can spend a lot of money and get a ready-to-run beautiful model which will look better, but then you can't say "I built it."
My T1 was an absolute basket case. I worked on it over 10 years ago when Bowser still stocked and sold parts I needed to fix it. I doubt I could have done the work without the replacement parts.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU