I'm thinking about purchasing a couple of Stanton drives to re-motor my brass Alco Models FM H20-44 road switcher. The original hole in the 0.05" thick brass base plate is 5mm and too large for the 4mm recommended hole for each Stanton drive mounting stud.
One thought I had was making flanged bushings from telescoping #227 & #229 Evergreen styrene tubing that look like flat, inverted top hats with a 4mm shaft in the center to fill in the space in the larger 5mm hole. It seems to be a logical solution and alternative to fabricating a new brass base plate Are there any inherent or unforeseen problems in the idea?
I can post a drawing of the flanged bushing, if anyone is interested in seeing it.
Thanks,
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
a flanged bushing would work, and diesels are worth quite a bit less than steamers [in the same class / quality]
Here's the drawing of the bushing:
sure, would work fine, it's not like there is a bunch of load there
Agreed. It's just to minimize the radial movement of the Stanton drive mounting stud inside the base plate hole.
I tried looking for a commercial bushing or collar washer online but nothing came close the needed dimensions - even if drilled out. For $6-$7 I can make a whole slew of bushings. And no need to glue it in. The locking nut on the stud will hold it in place.
Hi Tom,
K&S Engineering sells 7/32" brass tube that is exactly 0.219" OD. They offer it in various wall thicknesses. The 0.025" wall has an ID of 0.169" and The 0.029" wall has an ID of 0.161". You could easily ream a washer out to 0.219" ID for the flange.
My concern about using styrene is that the shim will be very thin and therefore subject to wear and damage. It would last for a while, but the brass will last forever.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Hi Tom, K&S Engineering sells 7/32" brass tube that is exactly 0.219" OD. They offer it in various wall thicknesses. The 0.025" wall has an ID of 0.169" and The 0.029" wall has an ID of 0.161". You could easily ream a washer out to 0.219" ID for the flange. My concern about using styrene is that the shim will be very thin and therefore subject to wear and damage. It would last for a while, but the brass will last forever. Dave
Thanks, Dave. So, after reaming the washer (e.g. #10 = 0.2 ID) to accept the OD of the bushing tubing, was your thought then to solder the washer to the brass bushing?
I recently made a modification to the bolster of an Alco Models, NYC, DES-3.
In my case I simply spun some brass nuts, 4-40 if I recall, and soldered them to the floor.
DES-3-bolster by Edmund, on Flickr
DES-3-bolster2 by Edmund, on Flickr
I needed to change the truck bolster centers to match the offset pivots on the new trucks I wanted to use.
DES-3_gear-2 by Edmund, on Flickr
I needed the threaded stud below the floor. In your case you could simply drill your clearance hole after the nut is soldered in place. Of course a brass flat washer could also be employed.
Good Luck, Ed
tstageSo, after reaming the washer (e.g. #10 = 0.2 ID) to accept the OD of the bushing tubing, was your thought then to solder the washer to the brass bushing?
The problem with attaching the washer to the tube first is that it is nearly impossible to get it lined up exactly square on the tube, and you don't want it sitting on an angle. I would insert the shim tube into the floor first and cut it off a little taller than needed. Then solder the reamed washer over the tube and file/grind everything flush. The reamed washer doesn't have to be a precise fit on the tube, but it does have to fit squarely on the floor. Otherwise the Stanton Drive may sit on an angle.
Something else I will mention is that you really don't want the Stanton Drive to be tightly shimmed. You want a bit of slop so that it can pivot to adjust to variations in the track just like the trucks on a boxcar. A bit of sideways movement won't be noticeable, but constant derailing will. I'm assuming the 4 mm hole recommended by NWSL allows for that.
gmpullmanIn my case I simply spun some brass nuts, 4-40 if I recall, and soldered them to the floor.
gmpullmanIn your case you could simply drill your clearance hole after the nut is soldered in place.
Ed's solution is too darned easy!!! Too cheap too!!!
I always seem to find the complicated way of doing things!
tstage I'm thinking about purchasing a couple of Stanton drives to re-motor my brass Alco Models FM H20-44 road switcher. The original hole in the 0.05" thick brass base plate is 5mm and too large for the 4mm recommended hole for each Stanton drive mounting stud. One thought I had was making flanged bushings from telescoping #227 & #229 Evergreen styrene tubing that look like flat, inverted top hats with a 4mm shaft in the center to fill in the space in the larger 5mm hole. It seems to be a logical solution and alternative to fabricating a new brass base plate Are there any inherent or unforeseen problems in the idea? I can post a drawing of the flanged bushing, if anyone is interested in seeing it. Thanks, Tom
That seems like an awful lot of work for such a simple problem, Tom.
While I live in Canada, I'm not very conversant in metric measurement, but by converting it to thousandths of an inch, it looks like all you need to do is get some K&S .197 (5mm) brass tubing, with a wall thickness of 0.0175", which will give you an inside diameter of 0.162", a mere four thou larger than the 4mm (.157.48") mounting post of the Stanton unit.
Simply solder a length of it into each of the existing holes, file it down flush, then install the Stanton trucks.
Wayne
doctorwayneit looks like all you need to do is get some K&S .197 (5mm) brass tubing, with a wall thickness of 0.0175", which will give you an inside diameter of 0.162", a mere four thou larger than the 4mm (.157.48") mounting post of the Stanton unit.
Hi Wayne,
Wouldn't the .004" clearance be too tight for the truck to pivot freely?
From my machining experience, Dave, 3-mil (0.003") is adequate for "close" clearance so that the two parts rotate freely axially.
hon30critter...Wouldn't the .004" clearance be too tight for the truck to pivot freely?
I figured that it would be adequate but not too sloppy....it just seemed that it would require the least work.
Were it mine, I'd simply buy the Bowser/Stewart version of the same locomotive, and use its frame and mechanism under the brass body (which might be easier said than done)...well, actually I would have simply bought the plastic one, rather than the brass version, then added some additional details, and a paint job to suit.
I'm probably missing something, but why doesn't he just rig up a thin sleeve to go over the 4mm part of the Stanton drive, and ream/polish the hole in the brass plate if necessary to get clean pivoting or vertical accommodation? One simple piece, he can easily use any number of gluing techniques, he can make another one easy or cheap if the first one wears or fractures.
Use some sort of springy plastic plate to clamp the nuts down on to hold the trucks in the plate 'nonconductively'...
doctorwayneWere it mine, I'd simply buy the Bowser/Stewart version of the same locomotive, and use its frame and mechanism under the brass body (which might be easier said than done)...well, actually I would have simply bought the plastic one, rather than the brass version, then added some additional details, and a paint job to suit.
Wayne,
Atlas has produced the H16-44 and Walthers has produced the H10-44 and H12-44s switchers. However, the only version of a FM H20-44 that I'm aware of is in brass.
My apologies, Tom, as I wasn't aware of that.
Do you really think 1/64 (aprox.) will make a diffence ?
OP said that the RECOMMENDED hole was 4mm, not the stud diameter. So, ebay offer brass tubing 5mm OD 0.5mmID for a perfect sleeve.
Cid (Memphis, Tennessee)