Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Dark smoke

1511 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 685 posts
Dark smoke
Posted by Howard Zane on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 6:50 PM

Here is an idea and a challenge......Athough I run mainly brass, I do have a few BLI and MTH steam locos with smoke.....all with unrealistic white smoke in addition to what I see on videos.....still not great.  Why can't a brownish gray dye be added to smoke liquid?  Then a simple conversion kit with built in bellows for non smokers. I do know about Seuthe....but I have no experience with this product. Or has someone already added some kind of coloring agent to existing smoke fluids....and are willing to share?

A few years ago, I saw a video of a German steam loco with incredible smoke....coming out of every orfice on the loco....and thick to boot, but still white.

HZ

Howard Zane
  • Member since
    March 2017
  • 8,173 posts
Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 7:18 PM

Evening Howard

How's life treating you and that great layout of yours.  I sure would like to come visit and see that somedayYes

I wouldn't think changing the color of smoke would be hard at all.  Fireworks smoke has been every color in the book for years.  Of course it would have to be a room safe additive. 

It does make me wonder why they haven't improved it over all these years.  It can't be rocket science.  I'll be interested to follow along and see if anyone has a trick up their sleeve.

 

 

TF

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Yorkton, Sk, Cnd
  • 441 posts
Posted by wvg_ca on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 7:57 PM

red, orange, yellow and green are relatively easy to make ... on the third hand, black and darker colors are not easy to do, and [in general] are not enclosed room safe ... sorry

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:08 PM

I don't think that adding dye would work. But, how about a small amount of ground up roofing felt or rubber sheet?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Huntsville, AR
  • 1,251 posts
Posted by oldline1 on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:51 PM

I have to agree that I'd prefer a gray or blackish smoke rather than white. I think there hasn't been much research done on the subject as even though Seuthe has been around about as long as I remember it hasn't been in demand in the US. I have worked several hobby shops over the past 45 years and if I remember right only have sold 2 units and they were for industrial smokestacks and not engines. 

Maybe with all the newer interest in smoking engines someone may just work on this issue. If I remember right the Seuthe units would bubble until reaching the proper temp and that would sort of spray oil bubbles all over the place. Which was a mess sort of like over-filling an old American Flyer smoke unit. Nasty mess.

Personally I don't like the looks of the wispy smoke I've seen coming from BLI and others. I'll just stick with good quality sound for now.

oldline1

  • Member since
    March 2017
  • 8,173 posts
Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:57 PM

You know, ... I have some idea but I'm not completely sure how a smoke mechanism in a model locomotive works. 

I know fireworks smoke obviously smoke from fire.  Remember those black snakes?  The little hockey pucks that burnt black smoke and the ashey snake thing would rise up,  man did they stink!

My guess is the smoke mechanism in a model locomotive is a vapor and works under the same principle as an e-cigarette.  Is that correct?  I don't own one so I don't know for sure, it's just a guess.

 

 

TF

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2015
  • 469 posts
Posted by Enzoamps on Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:20 AM

Whispy white smoke just screams LIONEL when I see it.

 

Since the black in smoke is particulates - unburnt coal dust - perhaps we could add a lamp black supply inside the loco and it would blow into the smoke stream to darken it.  Plus that would leave dark soot all around the layout in a very realisitic manner.  

Dang, I just looked and it is now April 2...

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:32 AM

Howard Zane
A few years ago, I saw a video of a German steam loco with incredible smoke....coming out of every orfice on the loco....and thick to boot, but still white.

That´s a smoke unit called Dynamic Smoke, made by the German gauge 1 manufacturer KM1.

Here is another video:

When the smoke from a steam engine is black, it is a sign that cinders, ash or unburnt coal particles are drawn through the flues and ejected through the smoke stack. This happens when either the fire door is opened, or the engine is working very hard at full throttle. A good fireman tries to avoid black smoke as much as possible, as it is also a sign of energy being wasted.

Coloring the smoke fluid won´t turn the smoke black. Paraffine, the base of smoke fluids, always burns "white".

Edit: OMG - stupid me! April 1st - thanks, Howard!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Thursday, April 2, 2020 1:27 AM

Black smoke can be caused by over-firing (too much fuel, not enough mass flow through the flu pipes).  All combustion engines have this problem...diesels, gas, fireboxes...  That was why engineers were rated along the right of way by inspectors who used cards held up close to the smoke of a passing engine to see if it was at standard...or better.  Dark smoke meant the engine was not being fired properly at the time.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, April 2, 2020 6:19 AM

selector
Dark smoke meant the engine was not being fired properly at the time.

Dark smoke also means there are suspended solids in the exhaust. Those solids fall to the ground ( or our layouts and floors). Looking around busy rights-of-way or industrial areas in cities throughout the early 20th century, no vegetation grew anywhere near the tracks or factories. All the acids in the cinders and soot killed off the trees.

White, black, blue or pink — no smoke for me, thank you.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 2, 2020 6:46 AM

gmpullman
 
selector
Dark smoke meant the engine was not being fired properly at the time. 

Dark smoke also means there are suspended solids in the exhaust. Those solids fall to the ground ( or our layouts and floors). Looking around busy rights-of-way or industrial areas in cities throughout the early 20th century, no vegetation grew anywhere near the tracks or factories. All the acids in the cinders and soot killed off the trees. 

As a kid, I grew up in a house four doors away from the GTW mailine on the SW side of Chicago. My mother would hang the wet clean laundry out to dry on clotheslines rigged up in the back yard. Whenever she would hear the steam engine whistle in the distance, or feel the rumble of the approaching, smoke belching monster, she would race out to bring in the laundry, dry or not. Great entertainment!

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • 2,572 posts
Posted by John-NYBW on Thursday, April 2, 2020 7:14 AM

All my steamers burn anthracite coal so I don't need black smoke.Big Smile

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
  • 17,574 posts
Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, April 2, 2020 8:59 PM

selector

Black smoke can be caused by over-firing (too much fuel, not enough mass flow through the flu pipes).  All combustion engines have this problem...diesels, gas, fireboxes...  That was why engineers were rated along the right of way by inspectors who used cards held up close to the smoke of a passing engine to see if it was at standard...or better.  Dark smoke meant the engine was not being fired properly at the time.

 

A engineer ran the engine.. The fireman was in charge of firing the engine. Firemen was highly suspicious of anybody standing trackside with a camera since smoke inspectors could be anywhere watching for smoke voilations and with a photo of the smoke infraction the hapless fireman had no defense.  

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • From: 53° 33′ N, 10° 0′ E
  • 2,508 posts
Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, April 2, 2020 11:32 PM

The following educational film produced by the London, Midland & Scottish Rlwy. in the 1930 will give you an insight into the art of firing a steam engine.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!