Overmod Bayfield Transfer Railway Based on every rail standard book I've ever looked at, the correct ballast slope is 22 to 30 degrees. I don't know where the 45 degree slope came from; I suspect it was easy to do.Both the CNW Historical Society and the Soo Line Historical Society sell copies of the standards books that include information on roadbed and subroadbed. I thought Plasser & Theurer used between 31 and 38 degrees for the actual ballast prism in their equipment. The point remains the same about 45 degrees being 'too steep'. I was surprised by how little theoretical discussion actually comes out and gives an angle... I always assumed the 45 degrees was either to minimize waste in making straight pieces or to match the profile of the straight pieces so cut.
Bayfield Transfer Railway Based on every rail standard book I've ever looked at, the correct ballast slope is 22 to 30 degrees. I don't know where the 45 degree slope came from; I suspect it was easy to do.Both the CNW Historical Society and the Soo Line Historical Society sell copies of the standards books that include information on roadbed and subroadbed.
I don't know where the 45 degree slope came from; I suspect it was easy to do.Both the CNW Historical Society and the Soo Line Historical Society sell copies of the standards books that include information on roadbed and subroadbed.
I thought Plasser & Theurer used between 31 and 38 degrees for the actual ballast prism in their equipment. The point remains the same about 45 degrees being 'too steep'. I was surprised by how little theoretical discussion actually comes out and gives an angle...
I always assumed the 45 degrees was either to minimize waste in making straight pieces or to match the profile of the straight pieces so cut.
45 degrees works out with no modifications for 2" track centers, the base dimension of the roadbed ends up 2" wide, or sightly under.
2" being the defacto standard for parallel track with most track and bridge manfacturers in HO.
Sheldon
RL Chilton Bayfield Transfer Railway I would buy milled Homasote roadbed. That is one of the factors to determine. That is, if there is still a need or enough demand for the product. I know I want to utilize milled homasote when the time comes, so I am going to make X amount, regardless. I also don't want to sit on 10,000 LF if it only sits on the shelf and no one wants it.
Bayfield Transfer Railway I would buy milled Homasote roadbed.
I would buy milled Homasote roadbed.
That is one of the factors to determine. That is, if there is still a need or enough demand for the product. I know I want to utilize milled homasote when the time comes, so I am going to make X amount, regardless. I also don't want to sit on 10,000 LF if it only sits on the shelf and no one wants it.
rrebell RL Chilton Bayfield Transfer Railway I would buy milled Homasote roadbed. That is one of the factors to determine. That is, if there is still a need or enough demand for the product. I know I want to utilize milled homasote when the time comes, so I am going to make X amount, regardless. I also don't want to sit on 10,000 LF if it only sits on the shelf and no one wants it. I asume you are in another buisness. You can make the jigs that are nessisary for your stuff and make X more than you need and then make more if demand picks up since the board itself is still available.
I asume you are in another buisness. You can make the jigs that are nessisary for your stuff and make X more than you need and then make more if demand picks up since the board itself is still available.
I think at the most, the endeavor would be a very minor side-line business at the most. I seriously doubt it would be feasible to make a living making Homabed.
I think the best plan would be to make some, see if it moves and then evaluate whether or not to move on with another batch.
Russell Chilton
cwhomaroad.com
cwhomaroad@gmail.com
Cascade offered both - a 45 degree and a 30 degree, the former also made to the same specs as the original Homabed product for compatibility. 30 degree for those who wanted more prototypical looking track.
No idea how many were left with unfulfilled orders, but if even half of them haven't changed to some alternative, that would be lot of roadbed. My current plan for just the lower deck is near 600 linear feet. No idea how much I would need to also do the upper deck.
I know there have been numerous posts and videos on making your own, but a) I don't have a table saw and have no plans to get one. The one operation where I would use it is actually easier to do by myself using my circular saw and the Kreg Rip-Cut, and b) the operation of standing the strip on end and pushing it through the table saw to get the uniform thickness that the milling operation did on the commercial product seems, shall we say, not the safest thing to do with a table saw. Push sticks and so forth notwithstanding, that's quite a narrow cut to try and hold the Homasote flat to the table and push/pull it throught he blade, which need to be extended fairly high (the width of the roadbed). Just something I don't feel comfortable with, and when you don't feel comfortable, that's the time to back away from the power tools.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
An interesting question is whether milling is the best way to incorporate vertical flatness, or grade or vertical curvature, into Homasote.
I've always considered this stuff to be like a thick version of paper. Its normal fabrication involves little attention to actual thickness or surface finish (see references here and when you understand the composition and fabrication you can appreciate what is needed to 'mill' the material to a plane surface and why there is so much 'dust' kicked up in this or in cutting it.
One question is whether the material can be molded to have a consistent 'taper' (like the taper in some wallboard extended over the width of a "board") which could then be cross-cut to make graded roadbed of various angle. Another is whether the material could be formed by slight moistening with a binding agent in water, and then rolling under pressure (spot pressure under what is a progressive line contact being high enough to match or exceed original forming pressure).
Homa-Bed,a nd I think Cascade as well, sold tapered pieces like that, full thicness at one end, taping down to "it will tear if you look at it sideways" on the low end. Listed mainly as a way to taper a siding down to bare subroadbed, but no reason it couldn't also be used as the top or bottom vertical curve transistion.
And the regular roadbed, as long as you were sticking to reasonable transistions, easily formed the proper shape without much effort, and without snapping - if you snapped a piece trying to make a vertical curve, you were making far too sharp of a vertical curve.
Based on the appearance of the Cascade and original Homabed products, they appear to have been manufactured using a planner and a molder or router table.
"Just something I don't feel comfortable with, and when you don't feel comfortable, that's the time to back away from the power tools."
Randy, that is an extremely smart plan of action. Being a fifth generation Woodworker, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen folks that should've heeded to that sage advice, but we're simply not able to. It is exactly what they should have known RIGHT before they hurt themselves.
I've got a couple of phone conversations planned on the subject for next week, to obtain various viewpoints and bits of wisdom that can be had. I have also started getting a couple of pieces of equipment on order that I think would be very useful. Another forum member here has offered to send me a sample, so that will be helpful, although I have a pretty good idea of how we want to go about the manufacturing process.
Being involved in the Old Car Business as I am, I'm well aware that there are many ways to make one of something, or even a few somethings and have them work. But, when you do more of a mass production run, you want the first piece to be exactly like the 100,000th piece that comes off the line. I'm a stickler for those kind of tolerances and attention to detail. My goal is to set up a very repeatable and high quality operation to make a solid, marketable product that will help fellow modelers, not hinder them. Tablesaws, bandsaws, custom jigs will do most of the work. The Slope for the edge of the ballast can be handled with a jig on high quality router tables, which we have. Good router cutters (45-degree and 30-degree slopes) is the best way to go for a smooth, repeatable edge. The router table will also be able to hand Turnout Pads, which have a curved edge.
For those that have not worked with Homasote, the biggest challenge, really, is the dust factor. It takes a good quality vacuum system to handle the immense amounts of dust. And I don't mean a Shop Vac duct-taped down to the back of the tablesaw! It means permanent hoses and fittings that sucks ALL of the dust from the milling process, on all of the machines that are used. Breathing Homasote is really not good for our lungs, at all. I think the system I currently have is Marginally acceptable. It might be right at the limit of what is really needed. It should work for a while, or at first, but most likely will need to be upgraded if the endeavor comes to be a real sideline business. Giving it a go will tell me real fast whether or not it is going to be up to the task.
In the next couple of weeks, we should be starting to make test pieces and setting up machines and making the necessary jigs.
RL Chilton Breathing Homasote is really not good for out lungs, at all.
It might be practical to 'pyrolyze' any fine exhaust dust continuously if the exhaust proves cost-effectively unfilterable to very fine particles in a production setting.
Overmod RL Chilton Breathing Homasote is really not good for out lungs, at all. It's nothing more than inked paper dust, and its size range is likely to be larger than plaster dust for a given range of 'sanding' or milling. I have a suspicion that some kind of electrostatic precipitation will be the likeliest way to segregate and bag the considerable volume at low mass of the dust and cuttings. A powered cyclone separator as a pre-stage might be useful, too. It might be practical to 'pyrolyze' any fine exhaust dust continuously if the exhaust proves cost-effectively unfilterable to very fine particles in a production setting.
It's nothing more than inked paper dust, and its size range is likely to be larger than plaster dust for a given range of 'sanding' or milling. I have a suspicion that some kind of electrostatic precipitation will be the likeliest way to segregate and bag the considerable volume at low mass of the dust and cuttings. A powered cyclone separator as a pre-stage might be useful, too.
Also, you are right in the "inked paper" aspect. In fact, traditionally, Homosote-type of products were made from recycled newspapers. I'm not sure that is still true, as the modern day newspaper is nothing like it was even just 10 years ago. The traditional newspaper might even cease to exist in the near future. But, it's still just pressed paper. As wood is to particle board, inked paper is to Homasote. Another reason why milling it is an issue. It has no tensile strength as such and only one small bit holds itself to another small bit, and so on throughtout the product. Hard to handle, mill, move around, bend it, etc. but glue it to something like Plywood or wood sub-roadbed and it's a really great product and quite stable. Just don't get it too wet!
.
I just got word that one of the pieces of equipment that I ordered, which was expected to be delivered this week has been back-ordered until 11/16/20. Unfortunately, I can only go so far with the first mini-run that has been started until that new piece comes in. This first run's purpose was to establish the QC that would prevail throughout all future production, fine tune the jigs used and use the finished pieces as the prototypes for some of the pundits of the industry to critique, evaluate and finalize any changes to production.
The first two mini-runs runs are HO scale, 45-degree and 30-degree curvable roadbeds, mainline (18" scale height).
I have had a number of folks contact me with an interest in purchasing roadbed, not just in HO but also have had a couple of calls about O-scale. The 2nd major run might just be an O-Scale run.
It was my plan to finalize all of the preliminary work by the end of this month, October. It now appears that I cannot get that done until the end of November.
12" thick (1/8") too, please!
Eveentually.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayfield Transfer Railway 12" thick (1/8") too, please! Eveentually.
It's in the works.
Thats the trouble with life, everthing seems to translate into a new buisness, good luck.
Hope you nothing but success in this venture.
If anyone would like an update, please send me an email.
why not post an update here?
rrebell why not post an update here?
Because it is a violation of forum policy to advertise your business, or your possible future minor sideline business to share what you have done with your fellow hobbyists. Just ask me how I know.......
RL Chilton If anyone would like an update, please send me an email.