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Primer Problem

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Primer Problem
Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 8:59 AM

long time ago when I knew nothing of primers and such, I found floquil solvent based bright silver to be a good base paint to make the colors all uniform over the different materials of plastic and metals used in detailing locomotives and freight cars.   It also would adhere to any spots of contaminent that didnt come off in the wash.  Now I work with printing resins (one feels super oily and acts like it too) and plastics as well as the old school materials.  The new materails take the solvent bright silver fine, but acrylic based primers just bead up.  even after thorough cleanings. 

I thought of automotive primers (and other commercial types like rust-oleum) but they are too thick. unless there is a version made in a very fine mist. 

To keep the uniform color of the equipment, what is a good solvent based bright silver paint?   Tru-color adhears to the super oily feel print resin, but I cannt find tru-color any where suddenly.  MBKlien, toytrainheaven, And many others come up with nothing.  Ebay (at 8 to 20 a bottle) had less than a page, when a month ago there were 10's of pages. Tru-color was my first thought.  It is strange I cannt find it anywhere.  What other options do I have that are solvent based?

 Down below in a thread attatchment, I added more on the oily plastic

Shane

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An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by mbinsewi on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:06 AM

NVSRR
long time ago when I knew nothing of primers and such, I found floquil solvent based bright silver to be a good base paint to make the colors all uniform over the different materials of plastic and metals used in detailing locomotives and freight cars.   I

I never knew that, bright silver as a primer?  Who knew! 

One option I've used, for just paint in general, I have successfully used paint from spray cans, through the air brush.  Primers require a tiny bit of solvent thinner, regular enamels work fine.

I use a set up with a large diameter straw, and spray the can contents into air brush bottles.  

Mike.

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:10 AM

Rustoleum does make a paint designed especially for plastics, but as you mentioned, it does tend to spray a bit thick. While not as thick as their other offerings, it does still spray thicker than your typical airbrush.

My question is what product are you using to clean in prepainting prep? It sounds like the prep washing is not quite adequately removing mold release, oils, etc...

I use Vallejo Primer, with zero issues, even on various materials, and it is indeed acrylic.

 

Ricky W.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:29 AM

Tamiya makes a light gray primer in a spray can that might meet your needs.

.

It is very good. The Fine Scale Military Modeling community loves it, but Model Railroaders have not adopted it as much.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:57 AM

adhears to the super oily feel print resin, but I cannt find tru-color any where suddenly.

Nick and Nora Designs were selling it at Timonium yesterday, I didn't specifically look for primer but it's on their Website

Kathy Millatt a couple 3D videos.  She washes with isopropyl alcohol and didn't mention one word about priming.  My unscientific survey of the first google choices on priming 3D models all mentioned acryllic primers.

Henry

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:26 AM

BigDaddy
adhears to the super oily feel print resin, but I cannt find tru-color any where suddenly.

Nick and Nora Designs were selling it at Timonium yesterday, I didn't specifically look for primer but it's on their Website

Kathy Millatt a couple 3D videos.  She washes with isopropyl alcohol and didn't mention one word about priming.  My unscientific survey of the first google choices on priming 3D models all mentioned acryllic primers.

3D prints need to be washed with isopropyl alcohol and then cured under an ultraviolet light. Heat will not cure the resin.

The soft uncured resin will inhibit the hardeners in paint.

And you should be using acrylic paints and primers; acrylic resin models, acrylic paints.

Robert 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:32 AM

ROBERT PETRICK
3D prints need to be washed with isopropyl alcohol and then cured under an ultraviolet light. Heat will not cure the resin.

She showed the curing in at least one of her videos.  Do Shapeways products also need curing?  I would think the would come cured, but you know about assue.

Henry

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Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:46 AM

BigDaddy
ROBERT PETRICK
3D prints need to be washed with isopropyl alcohol and then cured under an ultraviolet light. Heat will not cure the resin.

She showed the curing in at least one of her videos.  Do Shapeways products also need curing?  I would think the would come cured, but you know about assue.

I am only a bare newbie with 3D printing, and have only one order from Shapeways. Their stuff comes partially cured. Apparently, they move it in and move it out.

Specific instructions said the finish needs to be thoroughly cleaned to remove the oil and the white dusty stuff (uncured resin). Then place under a UV light for 15 or 20 minutes, or under direct sunlight for an hour or two. I don't have a UV lamp and I barely have any direct sunlight this time of year, but I tried to follow the instructions.

Robert 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 2, 2020 10:56 AM

ROBERT PETRICK
I don't have a UV lamp

.

Would a tanning bed work? I have access to one of those, but no UV lamps.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:00 AM

SeeYou190
ROBERT PETRICK
I don't have a UV lamp

.

Would a tanning bed work? I have access to one of those, but no UV lamps.

.

-Kevin

.

I dunno, let's see.

6'-7" tanning bed.

1500W.

3/8" x 1/2" resin model.

Yeah, should work.

Cool

Robert

PS

I've seen some users putting a black light in a closed cupboard. I plan to do something along those lines.

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, February 2, 2020 11:11 AM

I’ve used Tru-Color Paints for about 8 years.  I’ve also bought it direct from True-Color but I lucked out, my LHS stocks it and keeps the colors (SP) I use in stock.
 
For a solvent based primer I buy a quart can of grey Alkyd primer from a big box store and thin it with Acetone for airbrushing.  At around $10 a quart it sure beats the hobby paint prices and works very good on both plastics and metal.  Using Acetone the solvent based paint dries very fast.  I can change colors and mask and paint in less than 30 minutes without disturbing the first color.  I’ve been using the original quart for at least 6 years and it’s hard to tell any paint has been used, maybe ½” down after painting dozens of cars and locomotives.
 
 
 
This is Diamond Bright Grey Primer from a big box store.  The car is an Athearn diner kitbashed into a SP ¾ Dome Lounge car.
 
This True-Color Southern Pacific Daylight colors on top the thinned Alkyd Primer.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Finished
 
Mel
 
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:33 PM

It creates a good light block. 

I will have to look into the rattlecan large straw into airbrush bottle.  good idea.

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:36 PM

ricktrains4824

Rustoleum does make a paint designed especially for plastics, but as you mentioned, it does tend to spray a bit thick. While not as thick as their other offerings, it does still spray thicker than your typical airbrush.

My question is what product are you using to clean in prepainting prep? It sounds like the prep washing is not quite adequately removing mold release, oils, etc...

I use Vallejo Primer, with zero issues, even on various materials, and it is indeed acrylic.

 

 

 

If soap and water doesnt do it, then alcohol and if need be acetone.   For most alcohol is fine.  But these very new 3d print materials that just came out, they dont work in allowing acrylics to bond. 

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:44 PM

SeeYou190

Tamiya makes a light gray primer in a spray can that might meet your needs.

.

It is very good. The Fine Scale Military Modeling community loves it, but Model Railroaders have not adopted it as much.

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

I will have to test it to see.   The only reason I want to stick silver is for the uniform paint color for the rolling stock.  since I have a large supply of the polly scale colors for the rolling stock.  And the solvent version for the veriety in material

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:49 PM

NVSRR
I will have to test it to see. 

.

Hopefully it works, or maybe you can find exactly what you need.

.

I primed all the armoured vehicles for my German WW2 army with Floquil "Flesh". When I had to switch to priming them in gray, there was a colour shift in the final coat of paint.

.

Good luck.

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:53 PM

ROBERT PETRICK

 

 
BigDaddy
ROBERT PETRICK
3D prints need to be washed with isopropyl alcohol and then cured under an ultraviolet light. Heat will not cure the resin.

She showed the curing in at least one of her videos.  Do Shapeways products also need curing?  I would think the would come cured, but you know about assue.

 

 

I am only a bare newbie with 3D printing, and have only one order from Shapeways. Their stuff comes partially cured. Apparently, they move it in and move it out.

Specific instructions said the finish needs to be thoroughly cleaned to remove the oil and the white dusty stuff (uncured resin). Then place under a UV light for 15 or 20 minutes, or under direct sunlight for an hour or two. I don't have a UV lamp and I barely have any direct sunlight this time of year, but I tried to follow the instructions.

Robert 

 

 

Shapeays does all the cleaning and curing before it leaves the site.  so it is ready to have it final cleaning of any contaminants during packing and shipping.

If you print your own material using a resin, it must be cleaned and cured.  Sun is the perffered method.  Certain 3d prints use a powder material like brass and ceramics and certain plastics.   In the early days of printing an adheisive was printed onto the powder, a new layer of powder added, then adhiesive then powder  etc to build up the print.   Today, other plastics like ABS and Styrene and such can be direct print like ink in very fine microns.  Or placed like layers of caulk. all depending on print method used.

Some require cleaning, some require no prep. others require a good amount of prep.

 

So prep for paint is based on wht the designer specified as the matrix used to print in.

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:56 PM

RR_Mel

I’ve used Tru-Color Paints for about 8 years.  I’ve also bought it direct from True-Color but I lucked out, my LHS stocks it and keeps the colors (SP) I use in stock.
 
For a solvent based primer I buy a quart can of grey Alkyd primer from a big box store and thin it with Acetone for airbrushing.  At around $10 a quart it sure beats the hobby paint prices and works very good on both plastics and metal.  Using Acetone the solvent based paint dries very fast.  I can change colors and mask and paint in less than 30 minutes without disturbing the first color.  I’ve been using the original quart for at least 6 years and it’s hard to tell any paint has been used, maybe ½” down after painting dozens of cars and locomotives.
 
 
 
This is Diamond Bright Grey Primer from a big box store.  The car is an Athearn diner kitbashed into a SP ¾ Dome Lounge car.
 
This True-Color Southern Pacific Daylight colors on top the thinned Alkyd Primer.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Finished
 
Mel
 
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

 

I will have to look for that.  it doesnt look to far off bright silver in the finish color.    but do they still carry it.  I have noticed a big change in what the stores around here carry in terms of that kind of solvent material.   I will have to look.

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by NVSRR on Sunday, February 2, 2020 1:08 PM

I didnt think to try tru-color direct.  Just found it odd that suddenly cannt find it anywhere from the usual suspects.

 

The oily plastic feeling material was cleaned in soap and water first.  Thought it was just covered in release.   didnt work.  Since I didnt want to risk breaking details I just put on , i switched to just the fuel tank piece made of the same material to experiment.   So I cleaned it with alcohol then used valleyjo black.  balled right up.  Used valleyjo primer.  balled right up.   I used acetone to clean it thinking a stronger solvent was needed.    Same problem.  I tried Tru-color black and it adhered nicely.  without a primer.   Quickly showing the need for solvent base primers for priming certain 3d materials.

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:12 PM

I'll add another vote for the Tamiya Primer in a spray can, but I've also found Alclad's Alclad II LACQUER - GREY PRIMER & MICROFILLER to be very good for airbrushing.

You can over-coat it with any type of paint, similar to what Floquil's Gray Primer allowed.  It's the only Floquil paint that I really miss.

Wayne

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Posted by tstage on Sunday, February 2, 2020 9:28 PM

Shane,

I'm a big fan of Tamiya rattle cans.  The paint is thin and the superior spray nozzles really lay the paint down evenly.  And I've never experienced a clogged nozzle yet with Tamiya spray paint.  My only gripe is that they only sell it in 100ml cans.

Tom

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Posted by chutton01 on Monday, February 3, 2020 9:51 AM

tstage

I'm a big fan of Tamiya rattle cans.  The paint is thin and the superior spray nozzles really lay the paint down evenly.  And I've never experienced a clogged nozzle yet with Tamiya spray paint.  My only gripe is that they only sell it in 100ml cans.

The Tamiya fine surface primers (I use White or Gray as appropiate) come in 180ml cans.
The Tamiya FS primer I use for, well, models with fine surface detail. Structures and other less precise surfaces get nuked with Painters Touch 2X primer (which, to be honest, is actually pretty good - if they would only fix the nozzle clogging issues).  Rustoleum Automobile primers are pretty useful as well.

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Posted by tstage on Monday, February 3, 2020 10:03 AM

chutton01
The Tamiya fine surface primers (I use White or Gray as appropiate) come in 180ml cans.

Thanks, chutton.  I have yet to purchase any Tamiya primer; only paint so far.  Nonetheless, I wish their paints came in larger spray cans. Sigh

Tom

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, February 3, 2020 11:44 AM

If you liked using Floquil, you should look into SCALECOAT.

https://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/category-s/127.htm

Sheldon

    

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Posted by chutton01 on Monday, February 3, 2020 1:54 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

If you liked using Floquil, you should look into SCALECOAT.

https://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/category-s/127.htm

I must issue an old fashion HARRUMPH (in the annoyance sense, not 'for the governor' sense)  to that idea. Brought a spray can of Scalecoat GN Blue at the Amherst show, followed the directions (including shaking the can both up and down and in a circle), sprayed (light passes) in a room with decent temperature and at the recommended distance - the finish was bumpy, mottled and crud. Tried rotating the nozzle just in case, tried again on a different piece - same trash finish. Into the ELO pot with the pieces, then washed, reprimed and painted them with Tamiya (as I should have in the first place, except I wasn't able to purchase the Tamiya till this past weeken) - oh, look, nice smooth finish as it was meant to be.

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, February 3, 2020 2:34 PM

I've used Shapeway prints on a few occasions. After a good wash with soap, I just primed them with rattle-can auto primer. Worked great on my HOn30 locos. I'd post a photo but the system doesn't allow it for some reason...

Simon

 

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