OvermodBut isn't this precisely what the 'digital Faller' DCC system as controlled by the gamesontrack "GPS satellite" microdifferential system does?
I don´t know. I see the Gamesontrack system as a internal GPS-based layout automation system which still requires either track (for trains) or the "wire" (for cars). I may be wrong, though.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Tinplate ToddlerI see the Gamesontrack system as a internal GPS-based layout automation system which still requires either track (for trains) or the "wire" (for cars).
The question to me is whether a system that can control fore-and-aft movement with fairly high precision could also be used to do steering, or trigger subroutines for momentum acceleration and braking, etc. The Gamesontrack system supposedly has 1mm precision over the whole space, which means to me that both longitudinal and lateral deviation can be pretty closely detected and sequential position used (as in laser radar) to generate speed and direction.
In the pictured system at the Toy Fair, I only see the Faller vehicles using (presumably) their wire to steer or do route following; it's the starting and stopping (which the original Faller Car System did not do, as I recall; you turned it on and it ran at a constant speed following the wire) that's under close and at least semiautomatic (from what I could make out from the description) control.
I keep coming back to wondering whether a DCC datastream could be modulated onto that magnetically-susceptible steering wire, and picked up by coils at the detector in a vehicle. Then keep the datastream used by the GPS location system, and the RF band used by those mini-RC trucks. That should offer enough bandwidth to do some highly complex control things with the vehicles, including arranging their steering to roughly follow the wire but also deviate from it slightly or periodically so it doesn't appear you have a toy truck going around and around.
I was also interested to see that Faller and the Magnorail system can coexist fairly happily. (I confess to still being awed at that pedaling HO bicyclist) I'm beginning to think there may be ways to animate many of the people and vehicles on layouts and not just the trains...
You seem to be knee-deep into that electronics stuff, which is way beyond me .
Back to modelling a trolley bus system. This thread really got me interested in trolley buses. I was amazed to see, how many system there are in the US! I just wonder why apparently no one has picked the issue up of building a working HO scale model of a modern trolley bus system.
I vaguley remember the electric buses as a kid growing up in Brooklyn
Maybe 20 or so years ago I read an article in a bus modeler publication of a guy who built his own operating trolleybus system.Wish I still had the article
Well, I took a small leap into this project. I found a trolley bus set I liked the look of at a reasonable price on Ebay and made a deal.
Someone may have mentioned earlier, there are two versions of these trolley buses.
The older ones have the rather clunky looking steering arm/trolley pole mount above the roof of the bus.
Sometime later, in the 70's I believe, Brawa did invest in several small changes to improve the product. The large flat overhead wires where replaced with smaller round ones, the details of the poles were simplified and the steering was moved completely inside the bus. Changes where also made to the support masts for the overhead.
About the same time these changes were made, US distribution moved from Aristo Craft (who was leaving the HO market at that time) and moved across the Delaware to AHM in Philly.
The set I found is the newer style, and I will keep a look out for more of the newer style systems or extra accessories.
Hopefully this will allow me to evaluate the viability of this project.
Interestingly, the guy selling this set is only about 30 minutes from me, in a neighborhood I know well.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe older ones have the rather clunky looking steering arm/trolley pole mount above the roof of the bus.
Just to visualize the difference - here is an old Eheim trolley bus model:
And here a newer Brawa model:
ATLANTIC CENTRALWell, I took a small leap into this project. I found a trolley bus set I liked the look of at a reasonable price on Ebay and made a deal.
Please keep us updated, Sheldon!
Bowser makes models of the Pacific Electric PCC streetcars.
I am not sure whether they are currently available.
tstage They still run trolley buses in Dayton, OH: I've been interested in/kicking around the idea of a layout based on the Shaker Heights (OH) trolley line. (It ran from Shaker Heights down to E.55th in Cleveland. Not sure if it made it as far as Cleveland Union Terminal. ) I have both of the Bowser Shaker Heights post-war PCC trolleys and they are very nice models. It would be a fun project and make a good, narrow, around-the-wall shelf layout for a given room. Tom
They still run trolley buses in Dayton, OH:
I've been interested in/kicking around the idea of a layout based on the Shaker Heights (OH) trolley line. (It ran from Shaker Heights down to E.55th in Cleveland. Not sure if it made it as far as Cleveland Union Terminal. ) I have both of the Bowser Shaker Heights post-war PCC trolleys and they are very nice models. It would be a fun project and make a good, narrow, around-the-wall shelf layout for a given room.
Tom
Tom, would you believe that CUT, aka Terminal Tower was created for the Shaker Rapid? Yep, all that started out as a way to get a rapid stop on Public Square.
The intercity passenger trains were an afterthought.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
OK, so far I have scored two trolley bus starter sets. Here are a few photos of one of them:
Both are basically the same, the other bus is yellow. Both buses in very good condition. This set has the standard 100" of overhead, the other has some extra poles and wires, and a 90 degree crossing, with a total of about 130" of overhead.
So that is a good start.
I will be testing the buses, and will post more soon. I will keep an eye out for more overhead in particular. 230" inches may be enough, we will see?
Hi Sheldon,
That bus looks great compared to any that I have seen! Nice find.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter Hi Sheldon, That bus looks great compared to any that I have seen! Nice find. Dave
Thanks Dave, both are like new. Some of the overhead is less than perfect, but that too is generally "lightly used".
These are likely late 70's or early 80's production, AHM branded, made by Brawa after they took it over from Eheim. And they have the improved finer scale overhead.
There are lots of the 50's/60's Aristo Craft branded sets out there in poor condition.
We will see how they run.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThere are lots of the 50's/60's Aristo Craft branded sets out there in poor condition.
I don't remember the brand was but they may well have been from AHM. I have seen half a dozen or so over the years and every one of the bodies was badly warped.
This is very interesting. I hope you get them to operate in a way that makes you happy.
.
Keep us posted.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL There are lots of the 50's/60's Aristo Craft branded sets out there in poor condition. I don't remember the brand was but they may well have been from AHM. I have seen half a dozen or so over the years and every one of the bodies was badly warped. Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL There are lots of the 50's/60's Aristo Craft branded sets out there in poor condition.
Dave, except for the design change where the trolley poles exit the roof, as shown in the photos Ulrich posted earlier, the Aristo product and the AHM product are from the same tooling/manufacturer.
Ehiem sold it to Brawa pretty early on, and they made only small changes. Later on they improved the trolley poles, improved the overhead, and used better plastic as time progressed.
And yes the early versions would tend to warp if run for a long time.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI will keep an eye out for more overhead in particular. 230" inches may be enough, we will see?
Sheldon, just FYI as you look for more overhead, I recall seeing 'turnout' type overhead poles at one time for the Brawa / Eheim / AHM busses. They were operable, but I don't recall if it was a manual or electrical switching mechanism. Been a looooong time, and I didn't have these myself, just recall seeing them somewhere. Very fuzzy on the details, but I distictly remember seeing them. They were not homemade.
Ed
freeway3I recall seeing 'turnout' type overhead poles at one time for the Brawa / Eheim / AHM busses. They were operable, but I don't recall if it was a manual or electrical switching mechanism.
They were manually operated.
They are extremely rare these days and therefore quite expensive.
Actually, the earliest ones like Ulrich posted were manual, later they offered an electric one, as well as a "automatic" one for one way return loop traffic.
I have found a web site belonging to a guy in Germany who has posted lots of great info on the Ehiem/Brawa trolley buses and documented a lot of the history.
http://geogus.dyndns.org/trolleys.jsp#!/doc?dId=110
After BRAWA took it over, they first changed and improved the overhead about 1964? The new overhead required different pickup shoes on the poles, so for a brief time the old style external steering was retained but with the new style shoe.
The new style shoe works with both overhead systems, the old shoe only works with the old overhead.
Then about 1967, they changed both the steering and the motor in the bus.
The old Ehiem bus used a Marklin A/C motor with a rectifier onboard. These are the ones you see all warped and distored. The motors ran hot, the rectifier ran hot, the plastic not so good.
The newer buses, like mine, with the internal steering mostly all have a newer DC motor, still diode protected to only run forward.
Here in the US the products were first marketed by AristoCraft, but shortly after BRAWA took over, US distribution changed to AHM. AristoCraft was getting out of HO in the mid 60's, AHM was coming on really big. All the AHM labeled product I have seen is the newer overhead and newer bus.
The one my father had years ago was the older version, likely purchased about 1960. It eventually failed, warped body, dead motor.
Ehiem did have an electric turnout in the old overhead product line, it was very clunky with the motor located above the "switch". The new style overhead used a turnout with the motor located on the ground, attached to the pole.
I am still working on my street plan/trolley plan, but I don't think I see turnouts in my trolleybus future, but never say never.
One controlling factor will be finding more overhead and overhead accessories. The other will be deciding exactly how "big" this mass transit system is going to be?
I plan to do some testing of the buses I have later today.
I debated this for many years, but the extra space of the new layout has made it a must do.
Well, I did some basic tests, and both buses run.
One is a little better than the other, both need lube and new light bulbs.
I tested them with a really basic DC power pack, so it will be intersting to see if a better throttle improves perfomance.
Remotoring does not look impossible, but if I can get suitable performance without that I will be happy.
More later.
The diode may serve to round off the PWM output of your good power system, but it still should be better than a basic pack. I always wanted one of those old Aristo ones when I saw them in books, crude though they were. But, they didn't use those around here, and I think my 1956 dating puts me past most of the regular tracked trolley service in town, not that I really have room for it. Former co-worker friend of mine is the expert on the local trolley lines, I can ask him.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I ran Eheim HO Trolley Busses for years (about 8 years ago) I retired and had to give up the layout. If set up correctly, they run very well and add interest to a layout. I still have several Trolleys and accessories for when I can once again model. Wish I knew how to post pictures on here...
jacktheknife...Wish I knew how to post pictures on here...
To post photos here, you need to store them at a hosting site, such as photobucket, flickr or imgur.
Wayne