LIonel HO

[Anonymous]

On another topic we got into a discussion of Revell and Lindberg and I didn't want to go off topic any further and ask more questions but am curious.

I can't recall where Lionel went for their HO models that were offered in the late 50's-early 60's. Can anyone remember who the builder was for the Lionel HO line, and when Lionel ceased production did the line continue under another name? I remember that even though LIonel had the models painted up and boxed for them that at the same time another manufacturer was offering the same product under their own name.

Appreciate your thoughts.

[Anonymous]

I think it was Atlas/Roco.

[ben10ben]

Rivarossi did it the first time around, in the late '50s and early '60s. It was someone else, I think, when they tried again in the '70s.

[Anonymous]

I received a very long, but appreciated e-mail from a collector of Lionel HO that pulled some information out of a hard cover book on the history of Lionel.

Rivarossi made the first Lionel trains under contract. HO models were copied from their O scale counterparts in as much detail as possible. Horns were even put in the diesels and many accessories operated just like the O scale versions, much advanced for the day in a HO model. A scale GS-4 Daylight was even built that was far superior to anything Lionel built in 3 rail. Production ended in 1966. Operational accessories were fragile as was to be expected, and few exist in good operating condition.

Lionel resurrected the HO line in 1974 using re-branded Athearn locos and cars. This era was successful as the product was reliable and popular, but Lionel chose to focus on their 3 rail line and ceased retail sales in 1977.

A year or so ago I had a chance to see some Lionel HO on a table at one of the TTOS meets in California. I would never in a million years thought that Rivarossi in the 50's would have had a tie-in with LIonel, or that Athearn would ever consider letting their models be sold under another brand name. Just a complete surprise.

Thanks for your responses.

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by murrieta

I received a very long, but appreciated e-mail from a collector of Lionel HO that pulled some information out of a hard cover book on the history of Lionel.

Rivarossi made the first Lionel trains under contract. HO models were copied from their O scale counterparts in as much detail as possible. Horns were even put in the diesels and many accessories operated just like the O scale versions, much advanced for the day in a HO model. A scale GS-4 Daylight was even built that was far superior to anything Lionel built in 3 rail. Production ended in 1966. Operational accessories were fragile as was to be expected, and few exist in good operating condition.

Lionel resurrected the HO line in 1974 using re-branded Athearn locos and cars. This era was successful as the product was reliable and popular, but Lionel chose to focus on their 3 rail line and ceased retail sales in 1977.

This is not completely correct.

Lionel got HO from Rivarossi in the late 50's early '60's, then the got some HO from Athearn in the 60's also - at the time Athearn was doing a GP30, which was later reworked into a GP35.

The '70's tie in, which included the GS4 and a very good GP30, was with Kader Industries in Hong Kong. Kader Industries owns Bachmann, and the GS4 and GP30 were later sold under the Bachmann brand.

[Anonymous]

Nigel,
Thanks for the correction and bringing more information to the topic. Some of the mistakes was created by me in trying to reduce about 3 pages of information into a couple of paragraphs. I found a picture of the GS-4 on the web and it sure did have a Bachmann look to it, glad you detailed the Bachmann history. The model does have good proportions and body casting accuracy for the Daylight.

I also saw a picture of the Lionel FA diesel alongside a F7, which must have been the Athearn engine. It seems interesting that Lionel was offering at the same time locomotives from two different sources. I suspect that a Lionel Service Station would also service the HO line and would have to have parts and skills to work on Rivarossi, Bachmann, and Athearn, which all use much different assembly methods from one another. The little Hustler diesel of Lionel looks like an Athearn shell but on another manufacturers power chassis. Athearn, to my knowledge, only made the Hustler with rubber band drive, which would have been unsuitable for Lionel, but however it was done it sure does have the Athearn look to it.

Collecting LIonel HO would be an interesting venture. When I had my Lionel 2343 Santa Fe F-3's as a kid I didn't give much thought to the Lionel HO models compared to some of the other HO manufacturers, but there was a lot more to the LIonel HO line then I ever realized.

[ben10ben]

My reprint service manual does not include any sections on servicing HO. The only real mention of the existance of HO equipment is in the description of the 5F test set, which included HO track and the necessary equipment to test HO locos and transformers.

The service manual, as it exists today, though, is a collection of service leaflets sent out to the stations as new equipment came out. The modern service manual organizes and binds reprints of these together in one convenient volume. It's entirely possible, then, that the editors simply chose to omit all servicing information on HO.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ben,

Maybe there is a chance that LIonel did have some service info on the HO if the test bench included an HO track. When I visit the next show that has a lot of Lionel I'm going to ask around and see if any original service manuals might be around during that period that might have some HO in it. It would be interesting to see how Lionel would put together a service sheet on their HO locos as I doubt that much ever came out of Bachmann, Athearn, or Rivarossi as far as servicing goes. Lionel had a great set-up as far as having detailed information sheets for engines, cars, and accessories to help the operator, but not many manufacturers ever went to the trouble to put anything in that much detail out to the public, and the factory authorized service centers were rather unique, too.

[dknelson]

The early 1960s Lionel "Huster" was a dead ringer for the Athearn engine BUT Athearn used that rubber band drive while Lionel not only had geared wheels but also a working headlight. The horn hook couplers also worked better on the Lionel. Mine was painted Alaska RR I think. I wish I had it now .. in its original box ... I could sell it and buy brass with the $$$$!
I also had a Lionel HO hopper from that same era -- the trucks were excellent, all metal, sprung and double bolstered so they were equalized -- very very nice. I also seem to recall the horn hook couplers were all metal. You can't say they didn't try.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

I have the Lionel Hustler mentioned above in UP paint, also a Lionel HO gondola labeled Lionel lines a NYC subsidiary.