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Bachman HO GS4 4-8-4 Daylight. Light is on , but nobody is home

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Bachman HO GS4 4-8-4 Daylight. Light is on , but nobody is home
Posted by richardm47 on Saturday, November 16, 2019 11:20 PM

This is a simple engine... no dcc.  It was runnign its loop and cars uncoupled and the engine ran into them.  I know...Engineers are suppsoed to pay attention.  Another engine needed some assist.. Running two at a time is more fun...  Anyway.  The light is on but nothing runs.  I removed the shell and the bottom.  Two wires... one front and one rear had "broken?", so I soldered them.. Wierd.  The train was not runnign terribly fast.  I can move the gear connected to the motor, and the wheels turn forward and back.  but not under transformer power.  Good power to the track, as a lighted car is lit, and another engine runs on the track.    The Daylight  engine headlight is on, but nothing else moves.  hmmmm.  I know, I have seen posts that this is not a great  fantastic piece of equipment.  I found it at a train swap, and it has been running for several years now.   I searched for a "schematic", but no luck.  I 'll try to contact Bachman, but not holding my breath.... 

Thanks for the  exceptional forum.  .  Always in TRAINing.  Richard. 

I got the bottom eoff, but hav'nt fighted ou 

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Posted by ba&prr on Saturday, November 16, 2019 11:39 PM

Are there 2 sets of wires between the loco and tender? If so make sure both plugs are in all the way.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, November 17, 2019 7:21 AM

richardm47
I can move the gear connected to the motor, and the wheels turn forward and back. but not under transformer power.

I don't know if that gear should be able to be moved by hand

Here's a schematic, of a DCC  https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/H502X-IS001.PDF

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, November 17, 2019 8:09 AM

Henry’s is the later version, this is an early Bachman Plus Daylight.
 
 
Click twice for max size.
 
The Daylight before the Plus has the pancake motor and not worth fixing.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
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I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by Wolf359 on Sunday, November 17, 2019 12:48 PM

Does the motor make any noises when you give the locomotive power? If so, it may have a broken, jammed, or disconnected gear. Here's a drawing of the older version with the pancake motor. https://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionbachmann/bachmanndaylightgs4pg2.jpg

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Posted by garya on Sunday, November 17, 2019 2:11 PM

Wolf359

Does the motor make any noises when you give the locomotive power? If so, it may have a broken, jammed, or disconnected gear. Here's a drawing of the older version with the pancake motor. https://www.hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionbachmann/bachmanndaylightgs4pg2.jpg

 

That's what I was thinking.  I believe the motor contacts directly touch the frame, so I'm not sure about the wires mentioned by the OP. I would put power directly to the motor and see what happens.

Gary

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Posted by richardm47 on Sunday, December 1, 2019 10:29 PM

Thanks for the photo of the engine.parts.. It gives me something to search.  It does not have the pancake.... the photo matches mine.  I tried to apply power  direct to motor.... The head light comes on, but no noise or movement.  The two wires may have been broken all this time,  -- it has run for several years --  and the engine was working.   Each wire was from the front and rear trucks.    It was not a big crash.... just ran into the rear observation car.... the "engineer' was distracted.  No damage done to the cars.  the engine just quit....  But now I can see how the halves connect together.  I can problem solve without breaking it furthur.  Thanks.

Always in TRAINing.  Richard. 

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Posted by richardm47 on Monday, December 2, 2019 11:12 AM

I think I see what I need to do , but want to avoid any pitfalls that allow small pieces to fall out.  The shell is off --  That was easy.  There is a screw that attaches the rear halves together  (connects a wire to the rear trucks.)  I see another screw behind the first driver.  That means I need to take the under-frame off. and there may be another screw holding the halves, too.   Is there a good way to take the under-frame off without releasing unintended consequences of small pieces popping out from "somewhere".?   (Been there - Done That.)  I can see that the top motor contact seems   connected, but maybe the lower one disconnected in the collision...  
As an aside -- there is a wire above the smoke unit, that straddles the front halves, but doesn't seen to connect to anything?  It would touch the shell, when that is on.???   

As always thanks for a great forum. Luckily,  I enjoy tinkering with my trains.....  Usually it's my ancient O27 layout, but I have resurrected a few of the HO's that my son and I ran more than 30 years ago.  Looking forward to changing some things to reflect Christmas season...

Always in TRAINing.  Richard 

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Posted by garya on Monday, December 2, 2019 11:33 AM

richardm47

I think I see what I need to do , but want to avoid any pitfalls that allow small pieces to fall out.  The shell is off --  That was easy.  There is a screw that attaches the rear halves together  (connects a wire to the rear trucks.)  I see another screw behind the first driver.  That means I need to take the under-frame off. and there may be another screw holding the halves, too.   Is there a good way to take the under-frame off without releasing unintended consequences of small pieces popping out from "somewhere".?   (Been there - Done That.)  I can see that the top motor contact seems   connected, but maybe the lower one disconnected in the collision...  
As an aside -- there is a wire above the smoke unit, that straddles the front halves, but doesn't seen to connect to anything?  It would touch the shell, when that is on.???   

As always thanks for a great forum. Luckily,  I enjoy tinkering with my trains.....  Usually it's my ancient O27 layout, but I have resurrected a few of the HO's that my son and I ran more than 30 years ago.  Looking forward to changing some things to reflect Christmas season...

Always in TRAINing.  Richard 

 

First thing I would do is try to find the motor contacts.  It sounds like one is contacting one half of the frame; the other is not touching.  I would apply DC power directly to the motor contacts.  If it runs, you know the motor is good.  If not, you need a new motor.  It does sound like you tried this, but did you make good contact?  Is it possible to get to the lower contact?

Then you could try to make sure each motor contact touches a frame half.  You may have to disassemble the loco, unfortunately.

Gary

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Posted by richardm47 on Monday, December 2, 2019 11:17 PM

One of the contacts is visible on top of the motor.  The other is probably on the bottom and I have to take everything apart... That goes back to my "what if" quesiton.  Will anything tragic spring out?.  I often look for items that need repair, so have opened equipment and had something fall out and not know from where it came....  Looking at the expanded illistration, there is no indication of where the contacts connect.

Thanks for the suggestion.... There are insulated spacers "somewhere"... I see 2 but the drawing says 4. Unless I hear differently, I'll just take my chances , and start to take it apart very carefully.....  

Looking forward to setting up my Christmas village and train... always fun and brings the trains into the house, instead of out in the 'train room".

Thanks for such a wonderful resource as the forum... I'm AC/DC  running O27 and HO, so I visit both forums... Never been dissappointed,.

Always in TRAINing.  Richard. 

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Posted by garya on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 8:51 AM

richardm47

One of the contacts is visible on top of the motor.  The other is probably on the bottom and I have to take everything apart... That goes back to my "what if" quesiton.  Will anything tragic spring out?.  I often look for items that need repair, so have opened equipment and had something fall out and not know from where it came....  Looking at the expanded illistration, there is no indication of where the contacts connect.

Thanks for the suggestion.... There are insulated spacers "somewhere"... I see 2 but the drawing says 4. Unless I hear differently, I'll just take my chances , and start to take it apart very carefully.....  

Always in TRAINing.  Richard. 

 

I don't think anything could spring out, but go slow.  Besides, what do you have to lose? Unless you want a display piece...

If you have a digital camera/smart phone, take pictures of the disassembly.  That will help you get it back together.

On the whole, they're not that complicated.  Good luck.

Gary

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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 9:46 AM

I had seven of the Bachmann GS-4s and have taken all of them apart at one time or another.  I don’t remember anything being a problem, I don’t really like the Bachmanns so I think I would remember any problem during disassembly and reassembly.
 
Go for it.
 
The only problems I’ve had with that model is the drivers falling off.  I replaced the drivers on five of them and they have done pretty good for around 15 years.   I kept the other two for spare parts, I used the shells for kitbashing a Cab Forward AC-10 into an AC-9.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 
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Posted by richardm47 on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 9:55 AM

Thanks for the great suggestions... Yes I understand the "It's already broken" idea.  One of the things my Jr High shop students could do was bring in broken stuff... They would always worry about 'breaking it more".   I appreciate the confidence builder of not having parts jump out in previous repairs...  Thanks.  Alwys in TRAINing.  Richard.  

        

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Posted by richardm47 on Tuesday, December 3, 2019 6:25 PM

Ah well -- everything is apart... but the motor still doesn't run with direct contact... It spins freely, but no noise when juice is applied...   I might look for a motor, but I am probably looking at a replacement engine.  Thanks for all the help.  it was a fun "training" session.  My grandson got to watch and was impressed at all the tiny parts.  Take care fellow TRAINees.

always in TRAINing.  Richard. 

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Posted by garya on Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:25 AM

Changing a motor may be easier than finding a new loco.  Any name or numbers on the motor, e.g. FK-130SH?

Gary

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Posted by Wolf359 on Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:41 PM

I agree with Gary, I'd try getting a replacement motor before going through the trouble of hunting down another locomotive. Bachmann has two motors on their parts page that might work. https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_154&products_id=4198  https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=68_215&products_id=4276 They're both sold out at the moment, but you could call and ask when they'll be getting a new batch in stock. If that's the route you want to take, that is. It may also be possible to put a different brand motor in if Bachmann doesn't have anything that will work, but you might have to alter the frame a little bit to accept the new motor. And, if you can't find a new motor and end up buying a new engine, you can always keep the dead loco around as a display piece or parts machine.

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Posted by richardm47 on Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:03 PM
The two links did not look like my motor, but I'll give them a closer look.  There are seven 4-8-4's listed.  Mine... the GS4 standard is discontinued.  only the last one , a 4-8-4 Overland Limited has a chassis with motor that looks like mine.  It's sold out, but I'll keep checking back.  Of course, when disassembling mine, the first side of the 'valve gear assembly came out nicely.  The other didn't... the post that fits into the chassis.. snapped... there 's enough to super glue, but I have some time to figure out a better way...   I got a not back from Bachman, that they were sorry that my unit has been discontinued, but to ask at the forum if anyone might have a motor for sale....  But it has to be GS4 standard... The dcc's are different.
Ah well, if things ran smoothly all the time, what's the fun?  I have other trains to run on different lines  .... Thanks for the great ideas....
Always in TRAINing.  Richard.
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Posted by garya on Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:16 AM

richardm47
The two links did not look like my motor, but I'll give them a closer look.  There are seven 4-8-4's listed.  Mine... the GS4 standard is discontinued.  only the last one , a 4-8-4 Overland Limited has a chassis with motor that looks like mine.  It's sold out, but I'll keep checking back.  

Keep checking--parts come back into stock occasionally.

Even if it never comes back, it looks like Bachmann used that style of motor for other locos, too:

https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?

The motor looks the same, though I am not sure if the dimensions are identical.  More research is needed.

You would have to cut one shaft off with a dremel and cut off disc, remove the worm from the old motor and mount on the new one.

I understand completely if you don't want to go down this path, but it's an option.

 

 

main_page=product_info&cPath=68_208&products_id=1526

Gary

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Posted by richardm47 on Thursday, December 5, 2019 11:43 AM

Yes the motor looks the same..Allthough mine doesn' have the fancy logo impressed on the side. . As you mentioned, I only have the worm gear on one side.  I assume the gear is just pressed on the motor's axel.  The price is right, so I'll give it a try.  Thanks.

Tinkering is part of the hobby... Always in TRAINing.  Richard.

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Posted by richardm47 on Thursday, December 5, 2019 12:04 PM
I just solved the motor problem.  One of the brush pegs that hold the copper strips on the side always looked out too far.  I first tried to push it back with pressure from pliers... but it wouldn't budge.  I decided that since I have an alternative from the above post, I would try more pressure, and a little more "angle".. Viola!! It snapped into place and now it runs when DC is applied.   Talk about ignoring the obvious.... duh.    I still don't understand how such a 'light bump" caused it to pop out so far, unless it was already out somewhat and the 'bump' caused the final loss of connection.. .  I took pictures as I disassembled, -- another great forum suggestion -- so  now to meticulously put it back together....  Unfortunately, it will have to wait... things to do.. retired teacher that I am, but still tutoring students ... and prepping the house before the grandson comes to help decorate.
 Anyway.  Thank you all who waded in with wonderful information...
Tinkering is part of the hobby.  Always in TRAINing.  Richard.
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Posted by Wolf359 on Thursday, December 5, 2019 4:13 PM

richardm47
I still don't understand how such a 'light bump" caused it to pop out so far, unless it was already out somewhat and the 'bump' caused the final loss of connection.
 

That sounds like what happend in my opinion as well. It's surprising the minute amount of force it takes to dislodge things sometimes.

richardm47
I decided that since I have an alternative from the above post, I would try more pressure, and a little more "angle".. Viola!! It snapped into place and now it runs when DC is applied.   Talk about ignoring the obvious.... duh.
 

Don't feel bad about that. I can't tell you how many times I've made myself crazy trying to fix something and the solution was hiding in plain site all along. I'm glad to hear that you got the motor running again. It's always nice when you can fix something instead of having to buy a new one.

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