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If I was running a manufacturer I would put my company name on everything

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If I was running a manufacturer I would put my company name on everything
Posted by dstarr on Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:09 AM

Granted, it won't do much for new sales, in the box, where the box always bears the maker's name.  But for us who buy used stuff at train shows or Ebay or yard sales, the box is long gone. We always pick it up and turn it over and look for a maker's name on the bottom somewhere.  Doing so at least gets your company name in front of someone who is into RR models enough to pick one up.  If it's a good name like say Trains Miniature, or Atlas, or Athearn, it makes the used model more valuable. It might lead to customer contact when the buyer calls looking for spare parts.  It's cheap, etching your company name into the mold for the bottom part doesn't cost much. 

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:09 AM

Hi David,

You make a very good point. It would be so easy to do.

Of course, the other side of the coin is that if there isn't a name on the underside it might not be a very high quality model. Accurail is an exception to that but they do put their name on the coupler covers.

My interest gets piqued when I see a name that I don't recognize. I picked up some stock cars a while ago that were made by Star Line. Never heard of them. Star line hasn't been around since the late 1940s I believe. The cars were beautifully built and had very little damage despite being more than 70 years old. I was able to restore them and they are now very nice models.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:27 AM

For me, this is a rather odd topic, as most of my engines and stock have the manufacturer´s name already printed, engraved or embossed on the underside - just like an artist´s signature Laugh

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:29 AM

Thankfully I been in the hobby long enough to know a quality brand over a lessor brand. 

Of course Atlas,Walthers,Life Like P2K,Kato,Genesis and other top brands has their name on the bottom of their cars and locomotive. Athearn BB has 4 holes on the bottom of the tank for the motor mounts but,no name on the cars. Bachmann Spectrum and the newer DCC and DCC/Sound has the name on the bottom of the tank.

Of the trainset cars and locomotives AHM,Bachmann,Life Like and Mantua has their names on the bottom side of their cars and locomotive. I'm not sure about Tyco.

Varney and Revell had their names on the bottom of their cars and locomotive. 

I'm not sure about brass engines and cars although some companies used a sticker with their name. IIRC Tenshodo had their name engraved on the gear box of their diesels and freight cars.  Maybe the bottom of the frame of their steam loccomotive? 

Larry

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 6:13 AM

okie dokie.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, October 31, 2019 6:48 AM

Having been at this since about 1968 or so, and having been well exposed to lots of products made well before that time, this is really not an issue for me. I would say I can identify 90% or more of the products made for the north American market from 1950 to now, markings or not.

Working in model train stores for a decade helps a lot too, you get to handle stuff you would never buy for yourself.........

I would say about half have been marked in that time.

More importantly for me, I don't generally buy used stuff out of the box that has been banged around in some soda carton at a train show........I don't go to trains shows as much anymore either.

Just me, but when it comes to the secondary market, I generally only buy pristine new old stock sort of stuff.......

Nothing wrong with buying used if you find what your looking for, I'm just picky.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:11 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
More importantly for me, I don't generally buy used stuff out of the box that has been banged around in some soda carton at a train show.

Sheldon,  The key to buying use is looking for used models in the original box and in good condtition. Freight cars need to be inspected too ensure there is no broken stirrups,missing ladders and other fine detail. Locomotives need to be inspected as well.

As far as NOS.. That can be laughable at times when a BB engines is missing iits detail packet or handrails. I seen a "NOS" Atlas RS-1 that looked like it was well used with broken handrails.

Of course 90% of my  locomotives was bought used on e-Bay some was supposedly NOS which they could have been since they was in pristine condition and came from a B&M hobby shop that uses a e-Bay store to help boost business...

 

Larry

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:13 AM

Hey Dave-

We can credit Josiah Wedgewood (1730 - 1795), official potter to the Queen, for this idea.

Thanks to him I am walking out the door with the Under Armour logo on my jacket, the Hamilton logo on my watch, the Danner logo on my boots, and the Hanes logo on my shorts as I climb into my pickup emblazoned with the Ford medallion and head to the office.

Robert

 

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:25 AM

Only problem I can see is that there are some model railroad products that are on their third or fourth manufacturer; a company goes out of business or sells off the model train part of their business to another company, who begins to make the product using the original companies molds and such. If the molds have the first company's name in it so the name comes out embossed on the bottom of the car or engine or whatever, it could cause confusion later as to who actually built the model if the new manufacturer leaves it on there...or could cause extra expense to re-do the molds to remove the name.

BTW it's "Wedgwood". Wink

Stix
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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:39 AM

wjstix

Only problem I can see is that there are some model railroad products that are on their third or fourth manufacturer; a company goes out of business or sells off the model train part of their business to another company, who begins to make the product using the original companies molds and such. If the molds have the first company's name in it so the name comes out embossed on the bottom of the car or engine or whatever, it could cause confusion later as to who actually built the model if the new manufacturer leaves it on there...or could cause extra expense to re-do the molds to remove the name.

BTW it's "Wedgwood". Wink

Dang! Sorry. Embarrassed

I don't own any Wedgwood stuff. Our dinky little town doesn't even have a Starbucks, so I have to drink my coffee from a plain unadorned paper cup.

Robert 

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Posted by chutton01 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:47 AM

wjstix
Only problem I can see is that there are some model railroad products that are on their third or fourth manufacturer

I recall reading on some site (perhaps the old tripod Tyco site) of blank blobbed rectangles on the underframe where the original manufacturer's embossing was carved/filled out of the molds. Probably more common than you'd think.  Hmm, I can think of one or two models where putting a 'Maker's Mark' in a hidden place would be difficult - not all rolling stock is 40ft boxcars with deep side sills you know.


Did we ever cover over the years which model passed thru the greatest number of manufacturers?  I suppose I mean molds used in production by the manfacturer themsleves, not something like Pola manufacturing building kits and the like for any one (Lifelike, Tyco, AHM, etc) who wanted sell them under their own name.

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:54 AM

dstarr
If it's a good name like say Trains Miniature, or Atlas, or Athearn, it makes the used model more valuable. It might lead to customer contact when the buyer calls looking for spare parts.

The modern day emphansis on prototype accuracy might well leave fewer spots for models to be branded in the way you suggest.  And I suspect most manufacturers -- and these days that really means most importers -- brand the package when the stuff is new and once that is sold, they likely feel their role is done.

For sure sometimes it can be a real puzzle to identify a model, particularly if all you have to go by is a photo.  But having a healthy curiosity about not only what's available now in the market but what used to be available can be rewarded when going to swap meets or seeing things on Ebay and its ilk (much of which seems to be mislabled).  We have had posters on these forums ask "who made this model?" even while posting an imagine that clearly shows the words "Mantua" or "Varney."  Sometimes I feel we are being Googleized by lazy people.  

As for branding models so it can generate orders for parts, well .....back when Mantua or Varney or Bowser would put their name on just about everything, I suspect selling parts actually made money for them.  But remember, that's when they had the parts bins right there because they themselves used the parts to make those models.   My mental image is of the modern day "manufacturers" (again these days, mostly that means importers) cowering under their desks and muttering "please don't order parts from us.  please don't order parts from us."  I know at Walthers if they have to do warranty repair it means opening up a new box from the warehouse shelf, or using one of the carefully squirreled away older models on a shelf that is used as a parts source.  They don't sell parts, because there are no parts to be sold.

Dave Nelson

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:49 AM

I go to train shows for the cheap stuff I find that can be fixed, so if the sill steps are broken-off on a freight car, making it cheaper, it might be going home with me.  I usually cut them off and replace them with metal ones anyway.

I got this Tichy underframe for $2.00 at a train show, shortly after getting the Varney tank (no trucks, frame, or couplers) for free.



The tank was a bit too long to fit the Tichy frame, so I shortened it...

A little more work, plus some decals and trucks that I had on-hand, and I had a tank car...

I never bother looking at the new stuff at such shows, but there have been many times when someone else's junk has become my next project.

Wayne

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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, October 31, 2019 1:36 PM

ROBERT PETRICK

Hey Dave-

We can credit Josiah Wedgewood (1730 - 1795), official potter to the Queen, for this idea.

Thanks to him I am walking out the door with the Under Armour logo on my jacket, the Hamilton logo on my watch, the Danner logo on my boots, and the Hanes logo on my shorts as I climb into my pickup emblazoned with the Ford medallion and head to the office.

Robert

 

 

Way further back than that. Merchant marks date back about 5000 years. 

We even know the name of a few brands of food items in antiquity from their surviving containers or advertising on buildings. 

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 2:07 PM

I find the dismissive attitude to manufacturers by calling them "just importers," odd. Yes the factory assembly including injection molding and pad printing is done overseas. But the model railroad companies research the prototype, design the parts, design the graphics, design the tooling, design the packaging, and ultimately distribute the product. Yes the main assembly is done overseas with a 3rd party contractor, but model railroad manufacturers are indeed manufacturers in every sense of the word due to all the other phases of the process they are actively involved in. 

It's not an easy process. It's a constant game of design and research all hoping to hit a product niche you hope can turn a profit. Just because the grunt work is done in China and not the USA, doesn't justify a dismissive attitude to the manufacturers; since the USA based jobs are the intellectual ones of design, research and marketing. Oftentimes molding is designed in the US, shipped overseas for manufacturing, then brought back to the US to be stored by their owner. 

Every experience I have had talking about model train manufacturing with those who work in the industry gives me a lot of respect to them. This isn't some industry of "just buy stuff from China then profit." There is so much risk, trial and error going on behind the scenes that makes me respect anyone who enters this business and etches out a solid business from it. 

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Thursday, October 31, 2019 2:14 PM

xboxtravis7992
I find the dismissive attitude to manufacturers by calling them "just importers," odd.

There is nothing dismissive about calling them importers, because that is what they legally are.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, October 31, 2019 5:32 PM

xboxtravis7992

I find the dismissive attitude to manufacturers by calling them "just importers," odd. Yes the factory assembly including injection molding and pad printing is done overseas. But the model railroad companies research the prototype, design the parts, design the graphics, design the tooling, design the packaging, and ultimately distribute the product. Yes the main assembly is done overseas with a 3rd party contractor, but model railroad manufacturers are indeed manufacturers in every sense of the word due to all the other phases of the process they are actively involved in. 

It's not an easy process. It's a constant game of design and research all hoping to hit a product niche you hope can turn a profit. Just because the grunt work is done in China and not the USA, doesn't justify a dismissive attitude to the manufacturers; since the USA based jobs are the intellectual ones of design, research and marketing. Oftentimes molding is designed in the US, shipped overseas for manufacturing, then brought back to the US to be stored by their owner. 

Every experience I have had talking about model train manufacturing with those who work in the industry gives me a lot of respect to them. This isn't some industry of "just buy stuff from China then profit." There is so much risk, trial and error going on behind the scenes that makes me respect anyone who enters this business and etches out a solid business from it. 

 

And there was just as much work and risk , actually a lot more, when they actually owned the machines and made the stuff themselves.

I guess you think SEARS is/was a manufacturer too? Not.

Some SEARS products were developed by them, others just rebranded, but they never "made" anything.

I'm not saying any of this to take away from the work that model train companies do to bring products to market, just that the idea that you can sub out such a principal aspect of bring a product to market is an interesting approach to being a manufacturer - forget where the products are made, forget the word "importer", all that aside they are more like product developement and marketing firms, rather than manfacturers.

Thru the late 1920's and 1930's, did you know that FORD built cars at the River Rouge Complex were raw materials went onto the property and finished cars came out. They made the steel, the fabric, the nuts and bolts, the glass, all on site. They milled the wood for the seat frames and floor boards from logs.

Only one part entered the plant ready to install on the car....the Firestone tires.

Yes, as time went on that slowly changed - but that was manufacturing.....

Some of the problems we have today with the business side of our hobby are the result of not enough control over the manufacturing process.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, October 31, 2019 5:40 PM

BRAKIE

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
More importantly for me, I don't generally buy used stuff out of the box that has been banged around in some soda carton at a train show.

 

Sheldon,  The key to buying use is looking for used models in the original box and in good condtition. Freight cars need to be inspected too ensure there is no broken stirrups,missing ladders and other fine detail. Locomotives need to be inspected as well.

As far as NOS.. That can be laughable at times when a BB engines is missing iits detail packet or handrails. I seen a "NOS" Atlas RS-1 that looked like it was well used with broken handrails.

Of course 90% of my  locomotives was bought used on e-Bay some was supposedly NOS which they could have been since they was in pristine condition and came from a B&M hobby shop that uses a e-Bay store to help boost business...

 

 

Larry, I can spot "already been played with" three tables away at a train show, pretty much I'm not interested in "already been played with".....

I make exceptions, but they must be exceptional pieces.......

I admire Wayne's kitbashing - I have the skills, just not the ambition and time for as much of it as he does. Maybe when I retire.......

Right now, I save kit bashing for the things I  must have and can't buy "close enough" or "just right" in kit or RTR.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by xboxtravis7992 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 7:17 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I guess you think SEARS is/was a manufacturer too? Not.



I don't think of Sears as a manufacturer.

I think of them as extinct. 

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Posted by ricktrains4824 on Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:14 PM

xboxtravis7992

 

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I guess you think SEARS is/was a manufacturer too? Not.

 


I don't think of Sears as a manufacturer.

I think of them as extinct. 

 

Well, Sears is not extinct, they just have way less "frontage" then they used too.

And, Sears Hometown is still going strong in many areas. (I used to w*^k for them.) They are actually a completely separate company from Sears Roebuck. (Confused yet?) Similar name, but different (and competing) companies.

The Kenmore brand, Craftsman brand, and others marketed by Sears, also still exist. Lowe's and Ace Hardware carry Craftsman, and Sears Hometown still carries Kenmore, and Craftsman brands. (Lowe's Craftsman edition is made to different specs, as the drill batteries do NOT interchange from Lowe's to Ace nor Sears Hometown, nor Sears online Craftsman drills.)

Yet there never was a "Kenmore" factory, nor is there a "Craftsman" factory. The brands may have been developed by Sears, but the actual manufacturing was shopped out to other manufacturers, such as Whirlpool, Stanley, etc... Sears may have decided on some of the specs and features, but Kenmore was, and still is, made by other companies.

Along that note, there technically is not a Maytag, nor Amana, nor Frigidaire, nor KitchenAid factory. These are all "Whirlpool" companies. They just all have different features and name badges.

Kinda tough for those brands to have the name etched into a part when the same part is used on 6 different brands....

Indeed, there are only so many actual manufacturers of many products in actual existence on the planet. Many brands are just different marketing names for the exact (or extremely close) same things.

This makes it very difficult (if not impossible) to engrave brand names on every product.

Ricky W.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Saturday, November 2, 2019 3:02 PM

The OP makes a valid point here. I would like to see more branding on products.

My scaletrains ET44C4 has no branding on the fuel tank like other brands. I'm kinda bummed. They have a cool logo.Laugh

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by Eilif on Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:49 PM

chutton01

 

wjstix
Only problem I can see is that there are some model railroad products that are on their third or fourth manufacturer

 

I recall reading on some site (perhaps the old tripod Tyco site) of blank blobbed rectangles on the underframe where the original manufacturer's embossing was carved/filled out of the molds. Probably more common than you'd think.  Hmm, I can think of one or two models where putting a 'Maker's Mark' in a hidden place would be difficult - not all rolling stock is 40ft boxcars with deep side sills you know.


Did we ever cover over the years which model passed thru the greatest number of manufacturers?  I suppose I mean molds used in production by the manfacturer themsleves, not something like Pola manufacturing building kits and the like for any one (Lifelike, Tyco, AHM, etc) who wanted sell them under their own name.

I have a couple of cars where you can see where the previous manufacturers name was removed and a little oval is in it's place.  In most case this is because the molds changed hands, but there's more than a few that look to be the result of directly copying another brand's products.

 

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