tank cars during 1920's and 1930's

[timthechef]

I'm modeling the era from the 1920's to 1930's and I would like to know what kind of tank cars were used to transport fuel oil and other liquids during this era. I also would like to know what kind of cars were used for grain. I've been told that regular box cars with the doors boarded up where used for this and if so how did they load and unload the grain? did they have covered hopper car like we have now?
thankyou to anyone who can help, Tim.

[mhdishere]

As far as the grain box cars, they installed a cardboard (I think)door over the door openning, that didn't reach quite to the top of the door, and loaded it with a conveyor. To unload, they tore the cardboard door off, and some guy with a shovel went inside the car to shovel the grain that didn't fall out on it's own (a very dirty job I've heard).

[Anonymous]

If I remember hearing right, this practic of hauling grain went through the 1960's and I believe the 40ft boxcar was the prodominate car used for the job......Jamie

[cprted]

Tank cars in the 20's and 30's were of the short (36') riveted type. The Proto 2000 tank cars are fairly close though I belive they are modeled after tanks cars of the 1940's variety. The West Coast Railway Heritage Park in BC Canada has a PGE tank car from the era you desire. Their should be a picture of it on their website. www.wcra.org

[Anonymous]

Tim,
You have already received some pretty good answers on this, but I, like to add something on the tank car part of the question. Tankers of that era were typically of 6,000, 8,000 and 10,000 gallon sizes, usually in a 36' frame. The tanks were typically of rivited construcrion with increasing diameter as the capacity increased. There was some variation in the number of courses of steel sheet used to form the tank. I believe this a function of when the tank was constructed and who built it. Older tanks usually had more seams and the older tank cars often had their running boards set higher on the tank. In later years, the running boards were almost always set close to the bottom of the tank level. It was also common for tank cars of this era to have a single platform and, thus, only one ladder set next to the dome. Multiple compartment (with multiple domes) cars were fairly common then, too. If you're in HO, the Proto 2000 and Red Caboose cars would work well and can be backdated with a little kitbashing for specific cars. You could easily substitute Archbar, Andrews, or Diamond Bettendorf trucks, K-brakes and that's all to backdate these models. Perhaps the best 1920's tank car kit on the market is the Tichy USRA tanker. It is available with different size domes and the design goes back to the 'teens. It comes with K-brakes, too.
Covered hoppers were generally not used in grain service until the mid-to-late '50s. Until then covered hoppers were usually not much bigger than 50 tonners and were generally used to haul bulk powdery materials that could damaged by moisture, ie., cement, glass-making silica sand, phosphate, etc. Covered hoppers were rare cars brfore the 1930's, but there were some, I believe, that date back into the 'teens.
Jim

[dknelson]

As far as grain goes, back then some of it was shipped in sacks in box cars but open grain would have been shipped in boxcars probably reserved for that service -- remember that the early 1930s still saw older cars of 36 foot length. From time to time off-season reefers were pressed into grain service. I understand even cleaned up stock cars with wood nailed on the interior were used -- gulp!! The Signode reinforced paper doors are a more recent development (and were still in use in the 1980s at least) - back in the 1930s it was wood planks nailed to the inside. These were reused by the way unlike the reinforced paper which was just smashed -- a grain unloading area was pretty messy what with spilled grain, smashed wood and paper.
There were covered hoppers in the 1930s but they were mostly for cement service -- the grain hopper as such was not used back then.
Tank cars -- I have nothing to add to what you see above except that the standard Athearn tank cars are not unlike the largest and most modern cars of the 1930s, and many of the Athearn paint schemes are right out of that era, such as the Deep Rock car. The old Varney and Mantua tank cars were also pretty representative of the 1930s -- you see plenty of these for sale at swap meets here in the midwest, such as DuPage.
An excellent resource for anyone modeling a period pike -- Yes I know it is real expensive but worth it in my opinion -- is a Car Builder's Cyclopaedia from the appropriate era. I model 1969-1970 and have Car Builder's Cycs from 1966 and 1970. I paid a pretty penny for them (by that time the Car and Loco Builder's Cycs were combined; in the 1930s they were separate) but the info is worth it. If you are on a budget the Train Shed Cyclopedias of some years ago would excerpt portions of various Car Builder's Cycs --and there is one for tank cars of the 1920s and 30s. If you can find it at a swap meet I strongly advise picking it up. I have a Car Builder's Cyclopaedia from the 1930s and it is a trove of fascinating data and pictures and plans.
Dave Nelson

[BR60103]

I remember seeing a boxcar being unloaded of grain in the late 50s. The door was filled with boards and I suspect that there was cardboard behind to keep it from falling through the cracks.

[timthechef]

Thankyou for all the great help. since reading your replies, I have been able to look in my Wathers catalog and find cars close to what I need. Wathers even makes a box car with the grain doors!

[Anonymous]

I don't know alot about covered hoppers but I know a bit about tank cars.

The P2K and Intermountain are probably your best bet for typical tank cars of the era. They will need backdating for your era but nothing serious. P2K and Intermountain both make kits 8 and 10 thousand gal. tank sizes. The P2K has a bit better underframe detailing then the Intermountain kit but the IM is still really good. You can get both already assembled as well.

The Red Caboose tank car is based on a early '50s design for the US army so its not real useful for your time frame as its also welded.

The Tichy Kit is based on a prototype never built, but it looks really good.

Alot of good information on the models I mentioned can be found at http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/

[dknelson]

I went to my bookshelf and found the book I referred to in an earlier posting
Train Shed Cyclopedia No. 12, Tank Cars 1922-1943. I do not know if these are published anymore but I see them at swap meetings and shows. (Back in the 1970s it cost $4.50 which was a lot of money for a soft cover book back then). These are reprints from Car Builder's Cyclopaedias. There are photos, drawings and some ads from American Car & Foundry (Don't overlook the fine book on ACF by Kaminski for more old freight car photos and info).
While there are a few absolutely accurate models out there I think this book will help you evaluate the regular plastic commercial models so that you can at least come close. I was surprised that there were a few "dry" loading hoppers way back. Also some were welded back then with no rivets. And again don't overlook the older models from Mantua, Varney, and some other makes of the 1950s (The Varney car may live on in the Model Power or Life Like train set lines). Even in the 1920s there were cars of well over 10,000 gallon capacity.
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

I built a Proto 2000 tank, and it was quite challenging, many small parts. The handrail broke, much to my dismay, I had even bought nippers to avoid this, but it was broke before I took it off the sprue. I heard P2K will replace parts broken during assembly, but I have not called yet. You might be wise to consider pre-built, unless you enjoy the assembly (as I do.)
At the Rensselaer Polytech (spelling) web site, there is a Kit Guide, which has info on the prototypicallity of many, many kits. (This is NOT an unimpeachable source, but worthwhile.) The author's opinion is that 8,000 gallons were more common, and the more available 3-dome tanks were extemely rare in real life.
Bowser (and Kato) make a covered hopper that was available in about 1937, at least on the Nickel Plate. These were normally in captive service, so would not stray far from the home road's rails. Still, they are such neat cars...
I think the above web site has info on grain box cars, here's the link, have fun researching...
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/Kits/Kit-Guide.asp
Dean