After a long time reading about it, I'm starting to put together some trains. I am working on HO ATSF "some time in the 1960s".
I have picked up some freight cars just hanging around different estate sales, closeout sales etc. Here is an typical example. This boxcar says Santa Fe on it, and the price was $2.88. So I grabbed it. Why not?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimschools/48708011013/
It all looks pretty decent, if a bit dusty. Maybe the couplers could be swapped out for Kadees and the plastic wheels exchanged for metal. I could just tack it on a train and go. After all, it says Santa Fe, ATSF, and the Grand Canyon Line on it. What's not to like?
But I have found out that model railroading can be a playground for the OCD. So I decided to do some research to see what it is I have here, and if it would be "suitable" to run it on the 1960s ATSF.
First I started with the model itself. I just picked it up off a table when I bought it, there was no box or anything else with it to identify it. And, like many of the different pieces I have found so far, there is no identifying mark on it anywhere as to who made it, and what its model might be. This seems to be a common thing in the model railroading market. Strange. You would think a company would put their name somewhere on it, there are places out of sight to do this such as underneath the bottom, but there is nothing. Unless I don't know where to look.
So I turned to the internet to see what I might find by searching. I searched on the words ATSF and Grand Canyon along with the road number 145386 and was able to discover in short order that it is an Athearn model 5014. Cool, knowing what it is, maybe i could find out more about it, or some instructions as it was apparently a kit to start with. Searching the Athearn website didn't help much, but via Google I found this web page:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH5014
So at least I know I have the HO Kit for a 40' AAR BOX, SF/Grand Canyon. I also managed to find somewhere a PDF of the history of Athearn kits and from that I see that this was new in June 2006, and the price was $7.75.
Second, I need to try to figure out the prototype, what it is, and whether it makes sense to run it. I have a vague idea what a boxcar is when I start, and I know 40 footers were very common but they are older types. I don't know much more than that but learning is fun, let's go!
Some more searching and reading later, and I have more clues and more info. First, I finally figure out that all those little white letters and numbers on the car mean something! For example, on the lower right it says "BX-37", and this is a description of the type of boxcar it is. Very nice, now I can read about BX-37s. Tons of stuff out there. Then, there is another one that says "BLT 2-42", which logically means it was built in February 1942. Great, I know when it was made.
I search here and there and find various interesting information to read, but this one looks particularly useful:
http://old.atsfrr.org/Reviews/HO/Freight/IRM%20BX-37%2043/Index.htm
And there it says:
In 1941 and 1942 the Santa Fe purchased 5010 cars with AAR standard underframes from Pullman. These BX-37s were assigned 141301-144310 in 1941 and 145500-147499 in 1942.
Hmm, well darn, the road number 145386 doesn't fall in the 1942 range. Or the 1941 range for that matter. It seems to be in between those two in a dead zone. I'm not sure why. But maybe its OK. Its close....
There may be some "issues" with the model, which I see after various reading (see the above link). First of all, the other side has the cool-looking route map.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jimschools/48708347366/
Those maps seem to be correct for the time period around 1942. BUT, there are different ones. This one is the "curvy line" one, which was apparently the first one used. But it was replaced the the "straight line" version after not too long. Maybe somewhere around 1942 although I have not been able to find a definitive date. So maybe the curvy line map is "OK". It does have another problem though in that for 1942 there should be periods in the ATSF logo (I think that is called a reporting mark), that is it should say A.T.S.F instead of ATSF. The periods were dropped in 1944, so I read.
The model itself has a number of horrific "issues" as decribed by the link above. Such as, the left rail of the ladders of the sides should reach the roof, and they don't. And the ladder by the brake should have 6 rungs, not 7. And the grabs are way oversized. These seem to be minor things that hardly anyone would ever notice. Nonetheless I can see why some modelers might buy precisely made aftermarket ladders and rungs to fix all that up to make it super-prototype cool.
Finally the big question, can I run it on my layout, and not become a laughingstock for loading up time-period-incorrect rolling stock?
Well, it was made in 1942, we know that, and that's before the 1960s. So it won't be an impossible anachronism. But then there is another "date hint" in the lettering, just to the right of the standard "LT WT" number which is the empty weight. It says "LA 12-66". I'm not totally sure on this, but I believe this means it was reweighed in December 1966, probably in Los Angeles (LA)? But LA might mean something else, haven't figured that out yet.
Well, going by that, it seems it would be OK to run it, IF you were at 1967 or later. But not before 12-66! But this is still a model, and you can't guarantee prototype and historical accuracy from what is on the model, they can have mistakes. Is the reweigh date a realistic thing? Can't tell. Also, is it realistic that a boxcar made in 1942 is being used 25 years later? I have read in various discussions that it is "possible". Because the train lines wanted to maximize their investments, so if it still was usable, they would use it that long. It probably would have been upgraded with new trucks and other parts along the way.
Would it be reasonable that a "map car" is still around being used in the 60s? The maps didn't last long, I believe they were out around 1948, replaced by the "Ship & Travel" logo. From what I read, again on various discussions, its always "possible" that a boxcar with a map hung around that long and was still being used. Because lots of strange things happened over the years.
Well, heck. "its possible it could have happened" is good enough for me. So I will put it on the railroad, although maybe I can practice some weathering on this one as it was cheap and if its 25 years old in real life its got to be beat up to some extent.
As for the dots in the reporting mark, the theory in my layout universe is that they were painted over at some point so the reporting mark would match the current standard.
And maybe I will replace the grab irons and ladders with supercool ones that look more prototype. Or not.
But where do you draw the line? This is just one car I bought! I have a few dozen more to go through, and I just got started? Have I gone mad or does this make sense?
Either way its fun learning about all this stuff.
Here is a viewable picture of the car:
.
This is correctly identified as an Athearn 40 foot steel boxcar.
This is one of the "Blue Box" models.
Athearn cars are GREAT for beginners. I made an excellent tutorial on how to improve them.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/271360/3082289.aspx
Buy as many of these as you want, have fun running them, and upgrade them with more specifically detailed cars as you go on.
These are not high dollar cars, so accuracy is low. They can be fill-ins, or maybe good-enough for a while.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
We've got to teach you how to post pics. On Flickr the upward right curved icon gives you a choice of links. You want BB code. Just paste it, don't use any icons in the posting window
Pic 1
Ok I cheated and bent the rules. Flickr wants to include your identity in the links. Clickable links use the chain icon. It doesn't always work, for reasons above my paygrade. I always set the target to open in a new window
Next link
and the next
As to your question, reasonalbly plausible is good enough for me.
Those who model a specific date in time will disagree. It's their railroad, and mine is mine. I don't get my knickers wrapped around the axle over what other people want.
If you edit the post the clickable links don't click.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Based on your desciption and what I found out on this website for steam era models this is one place where Athearn's 40' Boxcar is close to being correct. The actual model is of an IC or DSSA car, but is very close to other AAR 1937 Mod Design Boxcars, the big difference between AAR 1937 and AAR 1937 Mod is the interior height of 10' versus 10'6". The Athearn car has the correct 5-5 ends and a Murphy panel roof. The major problem is that the underframe was produced backwards, for a more correct car use the Intermountain, Red Caboose, and Atlas Cars (Ex Branchline) for correct cars of this period.
http://steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html
The above website is my bible when looking at the prototype cars of this era.
By the way, the trucks would not have been replaced, maybe new axles and wheels but per FRA rules, trucks are good for 52 years. Car life at that time was 40 years and for more current cars it is 50 years with some exceptions. Also if the car never leaves the home rails it doesn't matter how old it is.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Thanks for the link to your great article, I am looking forward to going through it. Forgot to mention, I actually got 2 of these to play with for few bucks. Different road numbers but only by 1 digit.
I am finding the picture posting process here a bit awkward. Trying again: Nailed it!!
Railroad rolling stock is built and financed with the expectation of a 40 year service life. So a prototype placed in service in 1942 might well be still running in 1982. In the time frame boxcars carried everything, no railroad ever had enough of them, especially in harvest season. Freight cars were exchanged between roads. Freight cars marked for any US railroad might turn up on the Santa Fe. The Athearn cars are properly sized, nicely painted, and upgrading couplers and wheels is a perfectly rational thing to do. I might wash the entire car in warm soapy water, scrub well with a toothbrush and rinse well to get rid of the dust collection on the roof. A lot of my box cars are Athearn blue box.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I agree with the sentiment that it's more than close enough to prototype, and well within the life expectancy of such a car to be on your 60's layout. Maybe weather it (or leave it dusty) to give it an aged appearance as it would probably have some hard wear 20+ years after production. Neat that you got two with different road numbers.
Hear this advice and opinion with the knowledge that the person giving it has -and is happy with- Athearn BB (mostly unmodified) and smilar as much of his rolling stock. If you're like me you'll be happy with it for years. If, however you take a dive down the deep rabbit hole of accuracy and prototype, you'll tire of it soon.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
I got it, for Flickr select the picture, then left-click the download link, then right-click the size you want (I used Medium (640x236) and select Copy Link Address, this gives you a direct link to the jpg file that you can use here.
If you want to be able to show the full size photo then you would need to click the little arrow which gives you a short link that you can copy and paste. This gives a URL to that photo's web page. Such as:
https://flic.kr/p/2hdahHk
I guess another question is this: When I am perusing a big pile of stuff, how do I know what is good? How do I know what is suitable for my layout?
I guess you have to just stick with it and learn more and more and then you'll know.
For example, I don't have a caboose yet. I spotted a somewhat nice ATSF caboose for $1.88 so I picked it up. But then I found out it is an "extended vision" caboose, not introduced until the mid-70s. Dang it! Can't put it in with a 1960s train.
I have no idea how the model brands rank. It seems the Athearn blue box are considered to be pretty decent. But maybe some are better, and some are worse. So far I have some from these manufacturers: Accurail, Athearn, Bowser, CBT, E and C, Intermountain, Proto 2000. Some do look nicer than others, but I need to train my eye better. Is there a reference that talks about all of the different brands and their quality, accuracy, etc?
Lots of times the used ones are in boxes, but also lots of times they are not. So in that case, I can't figure out on the spot if its a good brand or not because I can't even tell the brand. I suppose I'll get better as I go along.
If you're having fun by being OCD about model railroading, then you're still within the line. If you are not having fun and fidelity becomes a true obsession, you probably crossed the line.
That line is different for everybody.
- Douglas
xsvtoysI got it, for Flickr select the picture, then left-click the download link, then right-click the size you want (I used Medium (640x236) and select Copy Link Address, this gives you a direct link to the jpg file that you can use here.
I don't use the download icon but the "share" icon, the upward curving arrow:
MR_Photo1 by Edmund, on Flickr
Then a window pops up and you can go to the BBCode tab, right click the displayed link and use Ctrl+C to copy. I pick a larger size as the M-R forum software will automatically resize the image for this page.
MR_Photo2 by Edmund, on Flickr
Once you have that link copied simply go back to your reply window in M-R and using Ctrl+V paste the link. The photo won't appear in your text box, just four lines of URL but when you submit your reply the photo will appear where you placed it.
Good Luck, Ed
PC 77040 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
PC 77040
The old Athearn 40 foot boxcar isn't a good model of anything really. Try to upgrade it and you have an inaccurate car with more details. When dealing with cars like this, I typically add decals and weathering, along with Kadee couplers and metal wheelsets. They keep going until I feel like replacing them.
Rob Spangler
xsvtoys...But where do you draw the line? This is just one car I bought! I have a few dozen more to go through, and I just got started? Have I gone mad or does this make sense? Either way its fun learning about all this stuff.
After reading through your post, it appears that you've already done some pretty good research.
The "LA" of the re-weigh data seemingly (and not surprisingly) signifies Los Angeles, but that's a Southern Pacific weigh scale, rather than one of Santa Fe's. In your chosen era, most freight cars were re-weighed approximately every 48 months, and it was not unusual for a car to be re-weighed on a scale other than that of the owning road.In a similar manner, a car on a foreign (non-home) road that had a damaged safety appliance (grab iron, sill step, running board, etc.) could not be released until repairs had been done. There was a uniform code of billing for this practice and for re-weighing, covering all of North America, so at the end of each month, all of the railroads paid or collected the monies owing. This kept the supply of cars available and no road, theoretically, would be out-of-pocket any more than as if they had done the work in their own shops.
Athearn Blue Box cars are, for the most part, not overly accurate, but they were well received in their day, and can still afford good modelling opportunities, depending on what you're trying to accomplish.
Here's one of eight cars, bought off the "used" table at a nearby hobbyshop for $2.00 apiece, or less, the same as your boxcar except for the lettering, that I re-worked for my freelanced model railroad...
They all had their original roof removed, along with the batten strip at the eaves...
...and the height of the sides reduced by about 1' (HO) in order to represent an older style car...
...then the roofs and their rivet battens, at the eaves, were re-cemented to the now-lower sides....
The roof portion was then removed, leaving only the original batten strip....
A new roof was then added...
Naturally, all of the heavy cast-on details had to be removed, too...
The next step was to remove the cars' ends...
...and then add new ones...
While there was a lot more work to be done, here's one of the finished cars....
If re-working low cost rolling stock is of interest to you, there is more info relating to the above-shown cars, along with quite a few from other manufacturers, to be seen HERE.
Wayne
xsvtoysI guess another question is this: When I am perusing a big pile of stuff, how do I know what is good?
Generally, go for old Athearn Blue Box stuff. It is usually easy to identify by finding the metal covers that hold the couplers in place. Athearn does not put manufacturer's ID marks on many of their castings.
Athearn BB cars are well made, durable, and they usually have good paint jobs.
I would avoid most things with couplers mounted to the trucks because they will require more work, but they will be fun to upgrade later.
Don't spend too many $$$ on something unless you are sure you can use it. I still buy things that are not correct for my era from time to time.
xsvtoys But where do you draw the line? This is just one car I bought! I have a few dozen more to go through, and I just got started? Have I gone mad or does this make sense? Either way its fun learning about all this stuff.
But where do you draw the line? This is just one car I bought! I have a few dozen more to go through, and I just got started? Have I gone mad or does this make sense? Either way its fun learning about all this stuff.
It's journey and while I've been in the hobby a long time, I'm still learning new things often.
As for where you draw the line, that is a personal decision. There are many who are satisfied with models that look genearlly like a box car consistant with certain time periods and at the other end, there are those who like to have models which you can match to real box cars. For the latter, companies like Tangent and Moloco actually post pictures of the real thing along with there model and you can see for yourself, they match, and they have done the research for you. Those models come with a fairly high price, but you can weather it to taste and it's a very accurate model.
There are books of course, and some online resources that help you check models to see how close they are to real freight cars, such as rr-fallenflags.org and railcarphotos.com etc.
It's up to the modeler to decide what fits their interests, after all, it's your model railroad.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
xsvtoys For example, I don't have a caboose yet. I spotted a somewhat nice ATSF caboose for $1.88 so I picked it up. But then I found out it is an "extended vision" caboose, not introduced until the mid-70s. Dang it! Can't put it in with a 1960s train.
Even when Athearn cars were new on the market (and I am sure this one goes back to the late 1950s at least, when the kits cost maybe $1.79 if that much) many flaws were noted: the entire underframe was mirror image because the die makers read the plans as if from below when they were drawn as if from above. Also on the plastic cars Irv Athearn often carried over paint and lettering schemes from his old metal line (when they were often accurate) to very different plastic cars where they might not be accurate - one common problem is that he put numbers on 40' cars that the original railroads put on 50' cars, and vice versa. The 1962 ORER (Official Railroad Equipment Register) for example lists 145386 as among a group of 50' boxcars. (That said cars were renumbered often during their useful lifetimes so your era may differ). And I have no idea if these particular Santa Fe paint schemes were on a car with that number.
Curiously it took a long time for folks to complain about the "claws" at the bottom of the Athearn doors, even while Mantua had doors that could open but nonetheless avoided the claws. Indeed the old Athearn metal line of boxcars had scale thickness doors that could open in very close to accurate troughs for the door bottoms and tops. They also had separate ladders and grab irons and it was no wonder that for some modelers, plastic seemed like a step backwards.
There was not as much info about freight car details then as there is now (that is, types of ends, types of doors, types of roofs and running boards, types of brake wheels, types of trucks, paint and lettering schemes) and for the most part articles and reviews and even plans lumped all "steel" box cars together. As noted by others the Athearn prototype for its 40' boxcar model, which it sold for years and years, is a bit of a mongrel and not exact to any but close (and depending on your fussiness level, "close enough") to several.
And then artists like Dr. Wayne get to work and make it all right!
Here is the nice thing. If you like the car you can enjoy it and if some day you become more fussy about freight cars, you can retire the car, or sell it to someone else, or go the Dr Wayne route and make miracles with it and at the end of the day, you'll have gotten your money's worth out of the car. Or you might direct your energies elsewhere in the hobby and this car and others like might be just fine for you. It is going to take a long long time, for example, before I have enough nicer and more accurate cars before I can afford to retire all my Athearns and Model Die Casting and similar earlier-era models. If that day ever comes.
Dave Nelson
I’m sure we‘re all in agreement here that that Athearn Blue Box cars is lacking detail and accuracy and general quality. But you get what you pay for. I wouldn’t every spend more than $5 for such a car, but I would easily spend $2-3 on such a car just to fill an empty spot on a roster for a limited time. If the OP want’s cars that are more accuarate and detailed then the OP need to pay more.
But if the OP is on a budget, I get that! I am too! I usually buy cheaper stuff dilute my OCD tendencies when it come to model railroading. I say maybe I‘ll fix that later and enjoy the trains as they are! And will I fix then later? I have no idea, but I’m still getting my money’s worth out of those cars by running them as they are.
So I’d say the OP should keep that car and run it as a stand in until a replacement comes. If that replacement is the same car with a lot of work done, so be it! If not, so be it!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
dknelsonAnd then artists like Dr. Wayne get to work and make it all right!
It does not take a lot to take a lot to make some Athearn cars fit in with a detailed roster.
Like this WOLF ROCK gondola, some just need free standing grab irons and A-Line stirrups, and they can join the fleet.
To make these old cars acceptable, you will need Kadees and metal wheelsets at a minimum. I had some with worn out trucks so those needed replacement, but it made such an improvement to reliability that I just routinely replace the trucks when I do the wheelsets.
I use Intermountain wheelsets and Kadee #5 or #58 couplers.
Typically, I use plastic Tichy truck frames. I spray paint the trucks with a rusty brown rattle can, and then weather them with powders and finally a coat of flat rattle can spray. I mask the wheel bearing holes and the truck bolster before painting, and always clean the bearings out with a Micro Mark truck tuner before putting in the wheelsets.
Clean the body well and apply some level of weathering. You don't want a car with an old built-on date looking brand new.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
SeeYou190...It does not take a lot to take a lot to make some Athearn cars fit in with a detailed roster....
That's certainly true, and the cars which I showed earlier were not necessarily an attempt to make them more accurate, but rather one to make them more suited to my layout's era, when many boxcars were not as tall as more modern ones. And, of course, for that reason I lettered them for my freelanced railroad, rather than for a real railroad. I think that the changes lifted them above the originals detail-wise, but it was simply an exercise to see what could be done.
Here's another Athearn boxcar, one of perhaps two dozen that I modified many years ago....
The changes were fairly minor, and included free-standing wire grabirons on the ends and sides (the ladders were left as-is), and metal drop steps at the car's corners. I didn't bother to alter the incorrect brake gear at all - it was outside of my interests at that time. I did thin the bulky running board on the roof (an autobody file, used carefully to avoid breaking the plastic, works surprisingly well) and added scratchbuilt corner grabirons at the lateral roofwalks.
Probably the most noticeable change was for the doors, where the door tracks were modified to look more to-scale, and the bottom one placed more prototypically-lower. Because of that, the doors needed to be made taller, but Athearn doors were readily available at most hobbyshops in this area, and it was a simple operation to cut apart the originals and splice-in an extra segment. They no longer worked but at least looked more prototypical.
When I back-dated my layout's era to the late '30s, I felt the lettering to be too modern-looking, so sold-off quite a few boxcars and reefers wearing that particular lettering scheme.
ATSF didn't have extended vision cabeese until the 70s. And most of the map cars were repainted into the "all the way" slogan (with the name trains) by the 1950s, there were a few that lasted into the 60s
"It's the South Shore Line, Jim - but not as we know it".
Thanks again everyone for the great information.
Wayne I will study the info about re-working the box cars, I love that sort of stuff.
Rick, I do have some Santa Fe books and also one Color Guide. I try to snatch them up whenever I see them at a sale as these things are expensive new. I also picked up a stack of 40+ Santa Fe Modeler back issues and those things are filled with interesting info, its gonna take a while to get through those.
And to everyone else thank you for your thoughts on the topics I brought up, it all makes sense and its great that there are different ways to look at it. Every post you guys write has some useful info in it. I learned a lot about how I might look at things. One thing for sure, getting a decent, if not totally accurate, car for $1-3 is a great deal. And I like the idea that you can use it as is, or work on it and rebuild it, or whatever. Even if you put new couplers and wheels on it its still not that much money. This is fun hobby stuff to do, cheaper than a boat or a car :)
I enjoy reading about the railroads, in particular the Santa Fe, and learning all sorts of stuff about how they were. And having a setup is fun. In the end, how many people that might come and see the railroad are going to look at the 4th box car from the end and say "the grab irons are way too big for prototype scale, the brake underneath is mounted the wrong way, the road number doesn't match with the actual production of that particular car...." Hahaha, no one is gonna know all that, unless you guys come over!
Lazers - I have found the info about train models to be somewhat scattered, there is a lot out there but nothing comprehensive like you said. It would be cool if there were something like scalemates.com. That site is great if you are research a scale model such as a plane or ship and such. Its a big database filled with details about each model, whenthey were made, how they relate to similar models, and so forth.
I have noticed the prices of Athearn blue box freight cars are creeping up at the local train shows.
Maybe the over-supply is finally running out?
SeeYou190 I have noticed the prices of Athearn blue box freight cars are creeping up at the local train shows. Maybe the over-supply is finally running out? -Kevin
That, and perhaps we have becomed so numbed to what new model trains cost, compared to what we wish they cost, that the sellers of used stuff feel they can charge more because it is still so much less expensive than new. I have noticed that as well with AHM and IHC structure kits, which are good kitbash fodder. And while there was a long time there when Athearn Blue Box was being sold very cheaply, if you were seeking a particular model or particular road name, you were likely going to be disappointed. So prices were low and buyers were either very lucky or very unfussy. I can remember one vendor in particular who was selling off an estate and the deceased modeler was nuts about the Monon and seemingly had nothing but Monon (unless the non-Monon sold out first and I never saw it). So you could get just about any car you wanted, cheap, so long as it was Monon. It might have sold like hotcakes in Indiana. You could hear the crickets chirp in Green Bay, Wisconsin, year after year at their booth.
At the big train show in Madison WI (which this year will be Feb 15 and 16 by the way) I have long noticed that a table can charge one price for something, be it Atlas snap track or Athearn blue box, or whatever, and a nearby -- even adjacent -- table can be selling the same thing for a radically different price, and both tables are selling briskly. I don't know if that is a sign that the laws of economics are being violated or verified .....
Thinking back to the OP's questions, the fact is that if you want to be even slightly accurate and prototypical about your layout or collection, there is such a lot to learn and know not just about the prototype trains, a huge and complex subject, but about what has been produced, by whom, and when.
In response to 'SeeYou190's post. The vender's call them ''Vintage, Collectible or Rare''.
Maybe some new to the hobby, Model Railroad Hobbiest, do not like paying $29.99+ per car. So BB's suites them fine. It takes alot of rolling stock to fill a yard and move fright.
The price of attending a show for the vender has gone way up over the years, so the cost of their products need to go up to make the show profitable. Then again some venders just seem to want to sell trains and make no profit.
Some of us are sitting on a gold mine of BB's.
ysvtoys, Model Railroading is to be fun, wrap the rubber band as tight as you like.
Edit: dknelson, I type slow.
Until last year I had a fine collection of Athearn BB and Roundhouse cars that well suited my needs.. I susposed my collection of today's highly detail cars clouded by better judgement and I sold all my BB and Roundhouse cars.
My point?
The majority of those cars was bought used with KDs for $4-6.00 at train shows a far cry from what I paying now. If the Athearn BB and Roundhouse cars fills your needs I would go that route. OTOH if you are willing to pay $40-60.00 for today's highly detailed freight cars then go that route.
As a PS.
However,there is another choice if BB and Roundhouse cars doesn't fill your bill Check Accurail line of fine car kits.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
PC101Then again some venders just seam to want to sell trains and make no profit.
Sometimes it is not about "making a profit". It may not have occurred to anyone, but there are a few of us who enjoy getting out once in a while, so if we sell enough to cover our expenses we're happy. Anything above that amount is chocolate sprinkles on the ice cream.
xsvtoys...Wayne I will study the info about re-working the box cars, I love that sort of stuff....
There are some similar links to be found HERE that illustrate some of my various kitbashing or scratchbuilding projects.