No reply from the OP. Looks like we are back to the usual talking among ourselves. Wake me up when the topic reverts back to a discussion with the OP.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 No reply from the OP. Looks like we are back to the usual talking among ourselves. Wake me up when the topic reverts back to a discussion with the OP.
I think you scared him off with the opening line of your first post.......
Sheldon
Mjorstad there’s also some significant gaps I’ve noticed
.
Frankly, I cannot think of any really significant gaps. There are some models that would surely be popular if made, but nothing that I would call "significant".
I wonder why some of the manufacturers have not used Kickstarter to see if there is a demand for a new model. Put your idea out there, if enough people buy the Kickstarter, make the model. If not, refund the Kickstarter and move on.
It works great for those "significant" gaps in wargaming.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 Mjorstad there’s also some significant gaps I’ve noticed . Frankly, I cannot think of any really significant gaps. There are some models that would surely be popular if made, but nothing that I would call "significant". . I wonder why some of the manufacturers have not used Kickstarter to see if there is a demand for a new model. Put your idea out there, if enough people buy the Kickstarter, make the model. If not, refund the Kickstarter and move on. . It works great for those "significant" gaps in wargaming. . -Kevin .
Well, the seriousness of the gaps depends on your modeling era, how fussy you are about detail, and you willingness to "hunt" for stuff made decades ago.
It has long been my view that the current business model has hurt the hobby as much as it has helped. There may be more variety, and it is way better detailed, but the "buy it now or miss it" factor has got to be turning some people away from this hobby.
I can make a long list of stuff that has never been made or never been made at a higher quality/detail level. How big those markets are is hard to say.
But three or four companies fighting over the market for Union Pacfic Big Boys is really stupid from where I sit.
Back in the day manufacturers avoided excess duplication, today it is a silly game of one upsmanship.
If I had an extra 10 or 20 million, I would get back in the model train business......
SeeYou190Frankly, I cannot think of any really significant gaps. There are some models that would surely be popular if made, but nothing that I would call "significant".
Well, nobody makes a nice afordable model of an R-9 subway car.
ROARING
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
SeeYou190 Mjorstad there’s also some significant gaps I’ve noticed Frankly, I cannot think of any really significant gaps. There are some models that would surely be popular if made, but nothing that I would call "significant".
Well, I'm guessing you are in the minority there!
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut three or four companies fighting over the market for Union Pacfic Big Boys is really stupid from where I sit.
I agree, but they must sell well since someone is always making them.
Paul
BroadwayLion Well, nobody makes a nice afordable model of an R-9 subway car. ROARING
IRONROOSTER ATLANTIC CENTRAL But three or four companies fighting over the market for Union Pacfic Big Boys is really stupid from where I sit. I agree, but they must sell well since someone is always making them. Paul
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But three or four companies fighting over the market for Union Pacfic Big Boys is really stupid from where I sit.
But that is the question. Are they selling 10's of thousands or just the minimum profitable production run each time around?
As I have pointed out before, I have nine Spectrum Heavy 4-8-2's, how many people have nine Big Boy's?
I have multiple copies of nearly every locomotive model I own, because that is how you build a realistic looking fleet for a moderately large layout.
I don't own even one Big Boy.........
SeeYou190 Frankly, I cannot think of any really significant gaps. There are some models that would surely be popular if made, but nothing that I would call "significant".
Two groups that stick out like a sore thumb if you're a contemporary modeller are:
Virtually everything that has a CRYX reporting mark. Walthers does make the Arcticar-type reefer in Cryo-Trans marks (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3855738), but there's http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4175665 and http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4819917 as two types that aren't around. BLMA's Tropicana reefers are close to the latter, but there's significant differences.
Viewliner II baggage cars (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4272017) and their sister diners (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5091519). Amtrak has retired all of the Heritage bags and diners, leaving these two as the only type in service.
Smaller run odd prototype models...Hah, lol, that's funny.
Little industry secret: those "odd prototype models" (I'm assuming you mean the Canadian ones?) have such a pent up demand that they outsell American prototype models by 2 to 1 or more.
I don't know actual production quantities, but I've been told "Canadian stuff sells!"
And I fail to grasp what is "odd" about RS-11's, FA-2's, C39-8's, and some exquisitely model passenger cars?
Respectfully submitted--
John
PRR8259I don't know actual production quantities, but I've been told "Canadian stuff sells!"
Down here in Florida, the hobby shop owners have told me that Canadian stuff flies off the shelves.
So many Canadian Winter Residents have created a demand.
WHat's 'odd' about those Rapido models are, many of them HAVE been done in the past, but the Canadian versions often have some prototype specific details that were left off the earlier models. So you may have been able to get all the RS011's you wanted, but if you were modeling a Canadian railroad, none fo them were correct without modifications. Rapido recognized a definite gap is the market and thus far are doing a great job filling it. That there are Canadians who winter in wamer southern areas of the US, and that there are plenty of US modelers who model Canadian railroads just means they also can sell plenty of product south of the border as well. Doesn't hurt that along the way they've made some otherwise unobtanium US road prototypes as well. And don't forget they have a whoel line of British prototype models as well. You don't often hear about those - not exactly sure how that business model works, if they just make them, or it's a sort of spin-off type of company.
They're also doing things not previously done - laser 3D modeling of the FA and RDC to get them ABSOLUTELY exact? Who's ever done that before? "Eh, matches the drawings were were able to get, close enough." Not for Rapido.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Don‘t worry-I’m still here! I’ve just been a busy fellow is all. But I have been reading all your guys’ comments and tips. I do really appreciate them; there’s a lot of great insights and info here to work with. So thank you!
I think I’m going to start poking around some more to different (smaller) companies. I reached out to BLI for some insight, but no response unfortunately. I’ll just keep putting out feelers and see what feedback I can get from those in the industry.
SeeYou190 I wonder why some of the manufacturers have not used Kickstarter to see if there is a demand for a new model. Put your idea out there, if enough people buy the Kickstarter, make the model. If not, refund the Kickstarter and move on. . It works great for those "significant" gaps in wargaming. . -Kevin .
I really liked this idea-a Kickstarter would be a great way to get the first few projects off the ground! I’ll have to hash out a preliminary business plan and once I get that, I’ll probably get a kickstarter, well, started. Only problem is figuring out what each expense will be and how much. Looks like I’ll be doing some research in the coming days. Thanks again all!
PRR8259 Smaller run odd prototype models...Hah, lol, that's funny. Little industry secret: those "odd prototype models" (I'm assuming you mean the Canadian ones?) have such a pent up demand that they outsell American prototype models by 2 to 1 or more. I don't know actual production quantities, but I've been told "Canadian stuff sells!"
Why just ask Jason of Rapido, he and to some degree Bowser, are the saviors of Canadian model train fans. And as a bonus, Jason is throwing some of us guys "south of the border" a few tasty bones!
And I fail to grasp what is "odd" about RS-11's, FA-2's, C39-8's, and some exquisitely model passenger cars? Respectfully submitted-- John
You, of course, have heard the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". That should be enough for you to grasp why some find certain trains odd vs. some not. 'nuff said.
MjorstadI think I’m going to start poking around some more to different (smaller) companies. I reached out to BLI for some insight, but no response unfortunately. I’ll just keep putting out feelers and see what feedback I can get from those in the industry.
It may be that you find model train company folks are reticent about sharing insights or inside info because they may view you as a possible competitor.
My guess is the best way to get real info and experience is to work for a company like ExactRail, Athearn, Rapido or the like as there is a lot of industry specific knowledge and processes they would know first hand.
That knowledge and experience could make a difference between success and failure. But as can be expected, they keep their cards close to their vests as they don't want to give away anything that could be used to compete against them or put them at a disadvantage in the same market place.
And of course if you went to work for a model train company, they would make you sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) which you would be bound to after leaving employment. But you would still have learned a great deal and be much better prepared to start a company of your own.
And of course it takes a lot of money - I've heard tooling can be six figures, or at least it used to be. Then you have to get slotted into a manacturer who has the skills workers and equipment to manufacture quality models at labor rates that will allow you to sell models in the US and still make a profit.
MjorstadI really liked this idea-a Kickstarter would be a great way to get the first few projects off the ground! I’ll have to hash out a preliminary business plan and once I get that, I’ll probably get a kickstarter, well, started. Only problem is figuring out what each expense will be and how much.
I don't know how you would get the word out to your audience.
I think posting about your Kickstarter in here would violate forum rules.
I always hear about interesting Kickstarters through friends. These things are completely dependent upon word of mouth.
Good luck!
riogrande5761--
I do ask questions of my friends at model train companies.
However, they are so...what's the right word for it..."concerned" regarding negative publicity that has actually occurred during the past that I have been specifically asked not to say anything at all that could possibly point to them, because people in online forums get very confused, misconstrue, and often get completely the wrong idea...That is even a little part of the reason I no longer participate in some other forums. I have nothing to say that might not be taken the wrong way by somebody, so it's better for me to shut up and bow out. My opinions weren't wanted there anyway when there are "favorites".
One manufacturer has expressly said that they don't want any comments made by me that don't come directly from them in the form of an advertisement or product announcement or whatever.
All I can say is general factual information such as "Canadian stuff sells". For those who make it, it indeed sells very well. There is a reason for the plethora of Canadian models in recent years.
I'm out.
Respectfully--
P.S. regarding model railroad manufacturers sharing secrets, with the possible exception of Rapido, one might as well be contacting the CIA for information. They share with each other "don't make that, because we already have it tooled" (Atlas has a reputation for honesty and transparency and is good about doing that to save others from wasting their money) but that's about the extent of what they share.
PRR8259 riogrande5761-- I do ask questions of my friends at model train companies. However, they are so...what's the right word for it..."concerned" regarding negative publicity that has actually occurred during the past that I have been specifically asked not to say anything at all that could possibly point to them, because people in online forums get very confused, misconstrue, and often get completely the wrong idea...That is even a little part of the reason I no longer participate in some other forums. I have nothing to say that might not be taken the wrong way by somebody, so it's better for me to shut up and bow out. My opinions weren't wanted there anyway when there are "favorites".
The way I see it, it does help for people to be of like mind or on a similar page with regard to the forum to enjoy hanging around together. Years ago I left another forum because it didn't fit my needs, but I wasn't bitter. We just weren't compatible. To quote the lyrics of Dave Mason song: "… So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye. There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy. There's only you and me and we just disagree. You do what works for you.
Here. This is a "happy place" so some have migrated here, as long MR forums remain open. The hobby has many aspects to it and the whimsical side is one of many and this forum leans that way. Some forums fulfill other needs. Do what works or doesn't work.
Fair enough.
Anyway, I'm not sure what you are responding to since you didn't quote anything but my forum name I can only guess you are referring to model makers being tight lipped which the reasons are obvious enough to me that it doesn't require explanation.
All I can say is general factual information such as "Canadian stuff sells". For those who make it, it indeed sells very well. There is a reason for the plethora of Canadian models in recent years. I'm out. Respectfully-- John
Yep.
PRR8259 ...because people in online forums get very confused, misconstrue, and often get completely the wrong idea....
...because people in online forums get very confused, misconstrue, and often get completely the wrong idea....
You don't say
Gary
Shreve RailTwo suggestions for you: you could learn by ordering an order of Accurail 48 custom cars and see how much fun and trouble it is to design your project and then sell the cars. Minimum order is 48 units. Secondly contact the fellow who runs Digital Fox and see how he does it using Accurail as manufacturer. Good luck!
Just shooting the breeze here... but I wonder if this type of approach might actually be the best for someone entering the market. Relatively low risk, but still a good way to experience designing and marketing a product without having to invest in new tooling.
Perhaps also purchasing a defunct company assets as well. You'd have to ask around to see who and what might be available, but companies that make trains or accessories all the time and not all of them get bought up by bigger companies.
Or there might be a company with unused or underused tooling. Think of what just happened with Lionel getting underused mantua/MPC/Model Power tooling.
Not that these are all going to be "cheap" options, but I imagine they might be a great deal cheaper than getting into the cost and effort of having new tooling and production put in place. I was baffled when I saw that "Value Trains" had invested in new tooling (which turned out to have some notable flaws) when tooling for teprototype they were making already existed.
Of course if your goal is to get a product out that doesn't exist, these might not be good options.
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