Hello all. Coupling my P2K FA1 and FB1 locos together is difficult because of the diaphrams. (I use Kadee #5s) I have to press very hard to get the couplers to engage. Do I need a longer shank coupling or can I adjust the diaphrams or the coupler box? (I will only use KDs)
Thank you, Rob
If your diaphrams are preventing easy coupling then either your diaphrams are too plump or your couplers are too short. My ABBA set of P2K FA units are hot chassis, which requires insulated couplers. Kadee's what fits what list recommends a plastic coupler, 30 series if memory serves. I would check the Kadee what fits what list and install the Kadee recommended couplers. That may well solve the problem. If it doesn't, you need to either trim the diaphrams back, or install longer couplers.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Here's the stock rear-ends of a pair of FA-FB-2s. Not really much of a diaphragm. Just a buffer plate and lift eyes. I wonder if you or a previous owner installed aftermarket diaphragms?
PRR_AF16-9616 by Edmund, on Flickr
Mine are coupled with Kadee #5 or the whisker equivalent and have had no problems. You could always compromise and just install one long-shank #146 Kadee and gain a little space. Still, if everything is "stock" #5s should work just fine.
Good Luck, Ed
LION has never learned how to us diaphrams, and on most locomotives still running today they are long gone.
LION runs his PA-2s with drawbars. bring them as close as possible without binding on the curves. Him also wires the locomotives together as a single entity.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
gmpullman Here's the stock rear-ends of a pair of FA-FB-2s. Not really much of a diaphragm. Just a buffer plate and lift eyes. I wonder if you or a previous owner installed aftermarket diaphragms? PRR_AF16-9616 by Edmund, on Flickr Mine are coupled with Kadee #5 or the whisker equivalent and have had no problems. You could always compromise and just install one long-shank #146 Kadee and gain a little space. Still, if everything is "stock" #5s should work just fine. Good Luck, Ed
Thanks for your help, Ed...I own two stock P2K FA1/FB1 sets, one Erie, the other Lehigh Valley. Unlike the FA2 series, these were equipped with full diaphrams (from factory? Don't know). I can couple them with a hard pressure and they run fine, but forget about normal rollup coupling. Here's a photo of somebody's from the web:
Those are probably KD5's, and look how tight it is. Maybe those diaphrams are added, maybe I can take one or both off. Maybe the FA2/FB2 issue eliminated them. I shall experiment. -Rob
Mister Mikado...Coupling my P2K FA1 and FB1 locos together is difficult because of the diaphrams. (I use Kadee #5s) I have to press very hard to get the couplers to engage....
Just wondering how often you would uncouple them (would need to be done manually, I'd think, as there'd be little chance of getting much slack, as is needed over an uncoupling magnet).If uncoupling (and re-coupling) is done frequently, perhaps couplers with longer shanks might help, but then you may create the problem of gaps between the diaphragms, which, in my opinion, is worse than the extra effort involved in coupling and uncoupling.
Wayne
Well, you get one or the other......
Roll up coupling or cool working diaphragms that touch........
At least in the early days, such locos would not be uncoupled from their "sets" very often.
Railroads used these types of cab units as a single locomotive, and it took a while for them to get into the idea of mixing and matching for each train.
The typical FA/FB or EMD F unit A/B was roughly equal to a heavy Mikado or Berk in hp, but had superior TE, so the typical ABBA lashup replaced double headers and handled grades with fewer helpers.
Only after hood units like GP7/9's became more common did railroads get more into assembling power to suit each trains requirements.
In my 1954 world on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL ABBA and ABA cab units virtually never get uncoupled......
Sheldon
Hello All,
I run a set of A-B-B of F-units.
There are no diaphragms between these units on my pike. They run on 15-inch minimum radius curves. Diaphragms wold not work with this MU versus the small radii.
As has been posted- -many F-unit consists were connected by drawbars and not couplers- - EMD FTs and drawbars.
If you do not need to uncouple this consist then you might have answered you own question...
Mister Mikado...maybe I can take one or both (diaphragms) off.
Remove one diaphragm and just use the remaining diaphragm between the two units.
Thus negating the need for longer shank couplers to accommodate both diaphragms.
You might consider cutting off the trip pins on the couplers between units to replicate drawbar connected units and still have the ability to separate the units.
If you need to break this consist, only adhere the diaphragm to one unit; I would suggest the B-unit.
Another suggestion: If you want to use diaphragms on each unit, install a medium shank coupler on one unit and a long shank coupler on the other.
I would put the long shank couplers on the B-unit. The diaphragms would mask the longer shanks on the couplers making them less obvious.
That way if you do decide to uncouple the consist, the A-unit has more prototypical length couplers along with the diaphragm.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Hello All, I run a set of A-B-B of F-units. There are no diaphragms between these units on my pike. They run on 15-inch minimum radius curves. Diaphragms wold not work with this MU versus the small radii. As has been posted- -many F-unit consists were connected by drawbars and not couplers- - EMD FTs and drawbars. If you do not need to uncouple this consist then you might have answered you own question... Mister Mikado ...maybe I can take one or both (diaphragms) off. Remove one diaphragm and just use the remaining diaphragm between the two units. Thus negating the need for longer shank couplers to accommodate both diaphragms. You might consider cutting off the trip pins on the couplers between units to replicate drawbar connected units and still have the ability to separate the units. If you need to break this consist, only adhere the diaphragm to one unit; I would suggest the B-unit. Another suggestion: If you want to use diaphragms on each unit, install a medium shank coupler on one unit and a long shank coupler on the other. I would put the long shank couplers on the B-unit. The diaphragms would mask the longer shanks on the couplers making them less obvious. That way if you do decide to uncouple the consist, the A-unit has more prototypical length couplers along with the diaphragm. Hope this helps.
Mister Mikado ...maybe I can take one or both (diaphragms) off.
If you read the OP's post, he was concerned that the units would not couple by simply using DCC to drive one loco into a stopped loco. The stiffness of the diaphragms will actually move the stopped loco, rather than compress the diaphragms and allow them to couple - I know, I have three ABBA sets, and one ABA set of the same locos.
Once coupled by hand, the factory diaphragms on these locos work fine down to 18" or 22" curves.
That is not his problem.
But moving the locos farther apart with longer couplers to make them couple on their own, will ruin the close coupled appearance of the diaphragms that the manufacturer went to great effort to make work and look correct.
Quite the opposite of draw bars, the OP seems intersted in frequently coupling and uncoupling the consist.
Something not commonly done in the early days of these locos on the prototype.
I really wish I had my stuff unpacked to take some pictures........
Thanks all for your advice. I'll just couple them manually and leave 'em that way, the diaphrams look too good to disassemble. As mentioned, once coupled the units operate fine, plenty of flex on curves. -Rob
In March 2015 I stripped and painted an A-B-B-A set of Proto 2000 FAs and FBs. Ran into the same coupler issue and used a long shank Kadee on one end of the B unit and a #5 on the other. One A unit received a long shank coupler and one A unit a #5. The front of the A units received #5s. This blog post covers the coupler issues and remedies.
https://newyorkcentrallayout.blogspot.com/2015/03/fa-fb-fb-fa-project-part-2.html
Finished Project can be seen here:
https://newyorkcentrallayout.blogspot.com/2015/03/fa-fb-fb-fa-project-part-3.html
The FA-FB-FB-FA consist continues to work flawlessly on 22" radius curves, Atlas snap switches and #4 switches.
John R.
Mister MikadoCoupling my P2K FA1 and FB1 locos together is difficult because of the diaphrams.
Late reply and I hope this hasn't been covered, but... are you *sure* it's the diaphragms? Could be, but I've also seen the coupler "glad hand" strike some part of the locomotive that causes a coupling problem. Pushing the units together opens the coupler just enough to couple. Just something to check, and you might be able to bend or snip off some of the glad hand to fix it.