Bachmann 4-4-0 American troubles & my first forum post

[Usonian]

Climbing aboard the forum with my first post! 

 

For now, I will forgo the "courtesy" of lengthy personal introductions (though, surely, I am a fascinating person and love the sound of my own keyboard).  Please allow me to jump right into a couple of technical problems. 

 

I found the Bachmann 4-4-0 American (Bachmann No. 51005) prototypically perfect on my 1890s layout, and not very damaging on my wallet.  But the Bachmann 4-4-0 has some shortcomings.  (Fans of Broadway Limited locos may now roll their eyes and chortle, "You get what you pay for!")

 

1.  Front Coupler: 

 

The four drive wheels on the Bachmann 4-4-0 are identical.  But the forward pair have added rubber traction tires, which increases their diameter.  This has the effect of raising the front end of the loco, making the front coupler so high it barely engages freight car couplers set at the proper height.  I am going for "realistic" operation on my layout, so a functional front coupler is necessary to drop off and pick up cars on facing spurs.  Have any of you folks experienced this problem?

 

I see no way to alter/lower/replace the Bachmann "Easymate" coupler:  It has no significant vertical play within its draft box, and the draft box is integrally molded into the pilot (a.k.a. cow catcher).  Anyone have contrary thoughts about correcting the coupler height?

 

I'm tempted to cut off the traction tires, which would correct the front coupler height, and then just see how badly that effects the 4-4-0's pulling power.  If it's really bad, I suppose I could open up the loco and add weight.  I added weight to the tender (with noticeable performance improvements) but cracking open the loco is more daunting for a newbie.  If pulling power remains badly compromised after adding weight, I could then replace the traction tires with Bullfrog Snot or similar liquid rubber.  With more experience and nerve I would pull off the side rods and carefully remove and save the traction tires, but I'm nowhere near that level yet.  Anyone have experience running a Bachmann 4-4-0 (or similar small loco) without traction tires?  With or without added weight?

 

Finally, I could keep the forward traction tires, add Bullfrog Snot to the rear drive wheels thick enough to level out the loco, correcting the coupler height.  But there are electrical pickups on the loco drive wheels, and I've determined that these pickups furnish power to the drive wheels as well as powering the headlamp.

 

 

2. Electrical Pickup:

 

I've read quite a bit about the notoriously poor power pickup of the Bachmann 4-4-0... after I bought it, of course.  Corrective suggestions for adding weight to the tender can be found here: 

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/225287.aspx 

and for replacing tender axle wipers with wheel wipers here: http://www.chainsawjunction.com/1879/nt_440/wipers/

 

The problem is the axel wiper design on the tender -- they pick up power on two closely spaced wheels on the front truck, right side; and two on the back truck, left side.  Stalling on insulated frogs is a common occurrence.

 

However, as noted above, there are power pickup wipers on all four loco drive wheels, visible and making good contact on my model.  The schematic parts drawing shows one continuous metal piece with wiper arms for the two right wheels, and a separate mirror image piece for the left wheels.  But the power pickup on the front wheels, with the rubber traction tires, must be negligible. 

 

This weird arrangement of wipers on effectively insulated wheels is just further goading me into cutting off the traction tires!

 

I would appreciate your thoughts and experience before I start making regretable "improvements" to my little locomotive.

[John-NYBW]

I'm not a fan of Bachmann locos in general although I have been impressed with SOME of their Spectrum line, particularly their Consolidation. Their NYC Niagra is perhaps the worst piece of junk I ever put on my layout but that doesn't address your problem. If the rubber traction tires are not set in a groove on the drivers I would be tempted to cut them off and see if that doesn't lower the coupler. If you need added traction, you could apply a product called Bullfrog Snot (seriously) which is designed for that purpose. A thin layer should suffice. I had to do that with one of my higher end locos and it worked quite well. I've also found that Bachmann small locos can improve with added weight if you can find a place to put it. I'm not familiar with their 4-4-0 but is there room in the cab?

[snjroy]

Posting a picture would help here as there are at least 3 models of the 8 wheeler. I would definitely remove the tires as a last resort. Kadee makes couplers of different height - overset and underset.  i would try installing that first to try to correct the problem. I also recommend the Kadee coupler height gauge to check the rolling stock.

Simon

[hminky]

Check to see whether the pilot is bent up.

Cant' believe the couplers don't couple.

Wrote the article on pickups and never had a problem. Have put n-scale Accumates on the loco to get a correct size coupler.

http://www.chainsawjunction.com/1879/cars/couplers/

Harold

[ATSFGuy]

Sounds like you're doing more with the locomotive, if you're switching cars around on your layout, I can see why you want to be able to use that front coupler.

My HO Scale Bachmann 4-4-0 is letterd for SF and four green SF Con-Cor Oldtime Cars (1 Baggage-Mail and 3 Coaches) go with it. It's one of two "Museum Trains" in my roster. Unlike you, I don't use the front coupler that much. This engine rotates lighty on the club layout.

Yes, the locomotive is rather light on weight, the cowbumper/front coupler are raised up slightly, and the tender has no backup light, but mine ran fine out of the box and had no issues on our club layout. Since it's a small engine, I ran it at number 7 or 8 using the club owned throttles which is about 10-20 scale mph. Mine is also DCC/Sound Equipped as well. The model is an improvement over the older ones Bachmann offered and were not DCC ready or realistic looking at all.

That's an interesting feature about the traction tires, thank you for mentioning that, I'll have to check those and rear coupler height on mine to make sure it lines up correctly.

[RR_Mel]

Sounds like you will fit in well here!

 

I have one each of the Bachmann HO pre DCC Ready American and Jupiter locomotives as well as a pair of Rivarossis.  All four run as good as they can for 4-4-0s, very little traction.  All four locomotives have the traction tires but all four are slightly recessed into the wheel.  As I never use the front couplers on those locomotives I removed them.

 

The Rivarossi locomotives do a bit better pulling the light weight coaches (2) up my 3% grades.  I only run them occasionally for show.

 

I prefer the Rivarossis over the Bachmanns, the Rivarossi have more detail and seem to run a little better too.

 

Early on I tried Bull Frog Snot for more traction but that actually made things worse.  I’ve never had much luck with BFS on any locomotive, added weight works much better.

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[Usonian]

Bachmann identifies my loco as "4-4-0 American Seatm Locomotive (DCC Ready...) Item No. 51005.

Here are some photos of my loco:

The photos show pretty clearly how the traction tires on the forward drive wheels tilt the front end of the loco upward.  The pilot/cow catcher appers to be parallel with the loco (not bent upwards).  The protruding coupler draft box and the pilot are cast together in a single plastic piece -- altering the coupler and/or draft box would surely make a mess of the pilot.

I'm fairly well convinced that removing the tires is the only solution.  All four drive wheels have identical part numbers on the schmatic drawings (00R01), so I am confident there is no groove or recess into which the traction tires fit.

I have 0.032" sheet lead that I could glue to the underside of the cab roof.  There are also three metal plates screwed to the cab floor, below window sill height.  If these are steel, I could change them out with lead.

This Bachmann loco really is a close match for the 1890s short line serving as my layout inspiration:

The Elmira Cortland & Northern was a 140 mile short line that ran through my childhood home town, Cortland NY.  The EC&N was bought up by Lehigh Valley in 1896, made part of their Auburn Division, and closed down in 1967.  All that remains today is a 3 mile track spur (rarely used), the LV passenger station (currently unoccupied) and a portion of the EC&N round house (now a wharehouse).  As these things go, that's actually quite a lot left standing. 

[dstarr]

Adding weight is always good for locomotives.  More is better. There may not be room inside your 4-4-0 but it is well worth looking.  With more weight the locomotive would not need traction tires, at least not so much.  More pickups, all wheels, is good for electrical pickup.  Clean wheels help too.  You might be able to shave down the existing traction tires by powering up the locomotive and holding sandpaper against the tires.  

[snjroy]

Some time ago, the rubber tire on my older Bachmann 4-4-0 dried out and fell off. It wobbled badly and a replacement was necessary. Looking at the pictures, I don't see a major slant requiring a drastic measure. Changing the coupler with an overset kadee is worth trying IMHO.

Simon

[dehusman]

The pictures of the coupler aren't that helpful, that's not where the problem is.

Are both drivers on the rails when the engine is just sitting there?

When you push the front end down, does the rear set of drivers come off the rails?

Can you swap the drivers and put the front drivers in the back and back drivers in front?

Is the rubber tire actually seated in the groove on the driver?

[hminky]

Never mind

Harold

[Usonian]

snjroy

Some time ago, the rubber tire on my older Bachmann 4-4-0 dried out and fell off. It wobbled badly and a replacement was necessary. Looking at the pictures, I don't see a major slant requiring a drastic measure. Changing the coupler with an overset kadee is worth trying IMHO.

Simon

 

 

I apologize for going radio silent for three weeks.  We  had a house guest, forcing me to temporarily convert my "play room" back into our guest room.  Then I wanted to try out some stuff so I could report the results.

Thank you, Simon, for the overset shank coupler suggestion.  With that fix, my 4-4-0's front coupler is now only slightly higher than ideal, and my cars stay coupled through tight turns, over frogs and other track irregularities.  (Shocking, I know, my track work is not absolutely perfect.)  Although the overset shank coupler was the simplest solution, I just had to get there the hard way:

Before changing out the coupler, I was beguiled by the siren call of enhanced electrical pickup I could get by removing the traction tires.  Bachmann's exploded schematic drawing shows an identical part number for all four drive wheels (so no groove for the tires on the front drivers).  Turns out, the drawing is wrong.  The front drive wheels are grooved, and not at all identical with the rear wheels, which I discovered only after slicing into the tires.  A little poking around on the web revealed that removing the side rods and replacing the traction tires would be no big deal. 

In addition to changing out the front coupler (after the traction tire detour) I traded out Backmann's steel weight plates in the cab for a like thickness of sheet lead, and added sheet lead to the cab ceiling.  I've also added lead weight to the tender.  Next, I plan to practice soldering fine wires, then see if I can fix up the tender's electrical pickup arrangement.

I don't know how well this little 4-4-0 pulls up a grade (my layout is dead level) but it sure is pulling me up a learning curve.

Thanks to all.

 

["JaBear"]

Usonian

I traded out Backmann's steel weight plates in the cab for a like thickness of sheet lead, and added sheet lead to the cab ceiling

Adding weight is Good, but I would suggest that you make sure that the locomotive balance point is between the drivers.

Cheers, the Bear.